Wendy Valentine welcomes Erin Gordon to Midlife Makeover

Wendy Valentine: Welcome back to the Midlife Makeover show. I’m your host, Wendy Valentine, and today you are going to meet Erin Gordon, an editor and author of several books, including look what you made me do, cheer in my first personal favorite, peeps. Not only am I excited for you to meet Erin, but I’m excited for her to share the wild, crazy, and synchronistic story on how the two of us are connected. I’ve been waiting for this moment for a few months now, and the whole thing still just blows my mind. Let’s jump into the craziness of our connection.

Erin, welcome to the show. Thank you so much

Without further ado, please welcome Erin to the show.

Erin Gordon: Thank you so much. it has been a few months of anticipation, and I’m glad the day is finally here.

Wendy Valentine: So wild. I was sharing with you. It’s still just like, oh, my gosh. Like, what are the. Of all of this happening? And then even kind of discovering it, which, I mean, it’s so much to unpack that I can’t even, like, fathom the whole thing. So, anyways, you can tell the story on how you found me, and then we’ll connect it all together.

Erin Gordon: Sure. So, Ah, a dear friend of mine, Willow older, who turned out to have been a guest on your show, saw an article in the Marin Independent journal, which is a northern California paper, about you and about how you podcast, from your rv or had podcasted from your rv. And Willow, who, is a fellow writer, and has helped me with many books, sent the article to me, and she said, you have to get in touch with this woman, because my book, peeps, that came out a couple of years ago, is about a podcaster who podcasts from her rv as she travels across country. And so I sent it to you, and you, like me, you were like, whoa, this is crazy. And then it turned out, there were more similarities in the book than just the premise. For example, the main character, son, is the same name as your son, and just all kinds of wild, coincidences and connections.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. And then also, I think, when did the book come out? It was, like, 2000. Wait, 2000?

Erin Gordon: that’s a really good. I want to say it was right around Covid. 2021. Yeah, 2021.

Wendy Valentine: Okay, so this. Yes. Okay. Wait. So I took off in the RV in October of 2021.

Erin Gordon: Whoa.

Wendy Valentine: Is that wild? Yes. And then I started the show on 222 22 at 02:22 p.m. yes. I definitely have a thing with numbers.

Erin Gordon: Whoa.

Wendy Valentine: But, yeah, so that came out, like, the same year that I took off, and that is so crazy. And, well, see, I’m 51 now, but. And then Meg, the character in the story, is 51.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. And like you said, her son’s name is Alexander. My son’s name is Alexander, my first son. And Meg, the character, lives in Santa Monica. My son lives in Santa Monica. And I spent this last few months over in Santa Monica, which is nuts. Furthermore, to add to the crazy is that when Meg took off in the rv, her mom just died. Right, right. M. And then when I took off in the rV, my brother just died. So.

Erin Gordon: Oh.

Wendy Valentine: In the divorce, she got.

Erin Gordon: Meg.

Wendy Valentine: M got divorced. I got divorced.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: It’s like you were channeling.

Erin Gordon: Ah, yeah, I. We were destined to meet. It’s. And destined to have this conversation, for sure.

Wendy Valentine: I know the similarities. It’s just an, oh, but wait, but wait, there’s more. Meg’s rv. Because did she. Wait, I’m trying to remember. Didn’t she originally she was going to get kind of like something like an okay. RV, and then she was like, you know what? Let me just get a really, really nice one.

Erin Gordon: Yeah. Well, she was going to get a used one, and then she decided to get a new one. That was me.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, I did the same thing because I was like, I’d sit there at night and I look through, you know, all those advertisements or whatever for rvs, and then I was like, I should save some money. And then I was like, you know what? D*** it. You only live life once. I deserve, something nice and brand new. So Meg’s RV was a class C. Mine’s a class circumflex. Hers was a 24 foot. Mine’s 25 foot. Not much difference. And then she also chose a midnight sparkle color, which I don’t know what mine was called, but it’s pretty much would be like a midnight sparkle. And then Meg called her rv Irv. Right? And, mine. Mine’s Felicia. Bye, Felicia.

Erin Gordon: Just a little gender difference in the rds. But other than that, that is so crazy.

Wendy Valentine: But just reading the book, I mean, first of all, when you first reached out to me, I was like, this can’t be true. Like, this has got to be some m nut job out there. And then I was reading the back of the book and I was like, oh, this is so nuts.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: And just. And I, when I was reading the whole book, I felt so much comfort, though, because I could totally connect.

One of the things Meg shared at the end of the book was connection

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Like, taking off in the rv and meeting the people and, and that was one of the things that Meg shared at the end of the book. I think was like she was searching for her motto, if you will. And at the end, it was connection. I think. I think that’s what it was. And it was connecting to people. And I would have to say that was one of the greatest things. No, wait, not was. It still is. On this podcast, meeting people. Like, my, RV travels. And even though I’m in Portugal now, I still go back to the states, and I travel in the rv. The people that I meet have changed my life, including right now in this moment. And it’s. And I, was speaking to a guest the other day. Oh, yeah. And she was saying, she was like, you know, Covid, like, we can all take some great things out of it, but the one thing that we really lost was that connection. It’s great that you and I, right now, we’re on Zoom, and we can connect this way, but really connecting with people, we’ve lost a lot of that where a lot of us are working from home and we’re not getting out and meeting people. And so I could totally connect with Meg’s connection.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Their motto. Yeah.

Erin Gordon: Well, I’m glad it rang true for somebody who’s really lived the life. Yes. Yeah.

Okay, so what inspired you to write the book? Great, uh, question

Wendy Valentine: Okay, so what inspired you to write the book?

Erin Gordon: Great, question. So, a couple things. I really wanted to write what I call a journey story. and so I decided to kind of read some of the what I consider classic journey stories just to get a little inspiration. So, like, the wizard of Oz and Cheryl Strayed’s wild. And as I read those books, I realized this is the exact same story. It’s in one case, a young woman, and in another case, it’s a young girl who go, on a road. In one case, it’s the yellow brick road, and in the other case, it’s a Pacific crest trailhead in a quest to kind of find their place in the world. And along the way, they meet people who help them understand themselves, help them complete their journey. And once I realized that, I thought, I want to write the next iteration of this story about a middle aged woman who, in my case, takes, the interstate, that’s her road across country to find her place in the world. Because, as we know, in midlife. And I was middle aged, am middle aged.

Wendy Valentine: Ah.

Erin Gordon: when, I was writing the book, you know, I was just talking to my girlfriends all the time about, you know, we’re at this weird stage where our life isn’t necessarily in relation to somebody else anymore. Like, we may not be somebody’s childhood, we may our children may not need everyday parenting the way they used to. In Meg’s case, she’s divorced, and so she’s not somebody’s spouse. And so what are we at this age when we’re not in relation to somebody else and we still have a lot of life left in us? Are we going to keep going in the same direction or are we going to make a right turn? And, and then the fact that she was a podcaster came about because I love podcasts about everyday people. Sort of like the, you know, like the fresh air with Terry Gross, but with everyday people would be kind of my dream podcast. So I didn’t have the skill or the time to, produce a podcast myself, but I decided to give that to my character and that those are sort of the people that she meets along the way in her journey across country. And the narrative is interspersed, as, you know, with, quote unquote, transcripts of, some of the podcast interviews she does with these everyday people she meets all over the country. So that is the origin story of the book.

Wendy Valentine: That is so wild. I can’t. I’m never speechless. I’m speechless. Oh, my God.

Erin Gordon: I should also confess that my fantasy self has an rv and drives all around with it. of course, that is not my life. my whole YouTube history is. If you look at it, it’s all like, van life videos. I’m just obsessed with it. so this was kind of my way to take a, cross country rv trip through my character.

Wendy Valentine: Wow. Yeah. And I was the same way, totally obsessed and still am with rv life. That’s just, like, so cool and fun and it’s different, and it’s this magnificent place of being, like, in the unknown. Not everything is so predictable. And as someone that was an absolute perfectionist and had to have everything laid out, that changed me a lot. To learn to go with the flow and just be like, well, whatever. And with, ii as many people that are listening that I have a book coming out at the end of the year. and it is a prescriptive memoir. It’s more prescriptive than it is memoir. And it’s not so much my story of after I take off in the rv, although that’s kind of towards the end of the book. But it’s how I got the keys to that rv, how I went from, yeah, isn’t that wild?

Erin Gordon: Like, I can’t wait.

Wendy Valentine: Oh, I got from being depressed and divorced and in debt and grieving, for my brother’s death and all the losses in the empty nest to actually taking off in the rv, driving off into the desert sunset, saying, life is a highway.

Erin Gordon: That is so. It’s so badass. I love it. I can’t wait to read that story. And you’re going to fuel my obsession with the rv life.

Wendy Valentine: But it’s wild, though, because then even part of that, in between that, from being depressed to driving off in the rv, everything that I had to do to get me to that point so that I could, like, hand. I mean. I mean, I was, like, at least 150 grand debt to being able to hand over a check for $25,000 for a down payment of an rv. Like, how I did all that. but then I think it’s. It’s also just talking about the journey, and although the journey from the rv, like, starting that engine for the first time and taking off and being like, oh, my God, I freaking did it. But the journey to even get me there was even excited. As hard as it was, that’s, to me, I kind of relate it to a butterfly and how a butterfly has to struggle to get out of the cocoon. Right? Like, and as many of you might know, if a butterfly does not struggle to get out of the cocoon, if you were to take a cocoon and, like, cut the top off and pull the butterfly out, it would actually be deformed and it would die. So a butterfly has to struggle.

Erin Gordon: It has the need. It needs to struggle.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. Yeah. And I kept, That was one of the things I reminded myself of, the end, as I was going through all of that, just to get to this dream of taking off in an rv, and I was, like, so attached to this dream, but I didn’t totally know why, but that was kind of part of trust in the unknown. Like, there’s some reason why I have to do this. There’s some reason I got to take off in this d*** thing.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Oh, and then. And then even discovering about starting a podcast, I would have never thought, oh, start a podcast, you know?

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: It’s all just so magnificent. but I think, too, I know connecting with my story and your story and the story of Meg, it also goes to show of having faith in the process. Right. And, like, the stars aligning and just. Just trusting that it’ll all work out.

Erin Gordon: Yeah. Trusting your instincts. Trusting, that at middle age. Middle age, you have wisdom to make these decisions and that if for some reason they don’t work out, that you have the fortitude to, course correct. So it’s okay. To take a risk. yeah, totally.

Wendy Valentine: Okay. Yeah. And I love that you said that, because I feel like there’s a lot of people, they get to this stage in life, and they’re afraid to make a mistake there. Then it becomes like paralysis by analysis. And they never, never make that move. But it’s like, go ahead, like, take a step forward. Doesn’t mean you can’t pivot and turn a different direction.

I think there’s more opportunities at midlife than ever before

Right? Like, you can turn the RV or whatever in a different direction. but, yeah, I think it’s a. A magical place to be because in some ways, I feel like there’s more opportunities at midlife. And, I mean, I raised three kids. I, you know, went through my divorce, and when the light bulb went off, for me, it was like, holy crap. Like, I can really do anything. I can really shine. I don’t need to ask permission from anyone. I can go wherever I want to go and do whatever I want to do. And then when I realized that of having that blank slate, it’s like,

Erin Gordon: Okay, the opportunities can be limitless. Oh, yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Erin Gordon: I mean, look at you. You’re living in Portugal.

Wendy Valentine: I know. I know. That’s nuts, too. Like, how I had stumbled across this as well. But, yeah, it’s like if you were to. I mean, for many of us, if we look back on our lives and if someone came up to you and said, hey, by the way, in about five years from now, you’re gonna be living in Portugal, you’ll have this rv back in the states, you’ll have this podcast. You’re gonna be writing a book. If they. If someone had told me that, I’ve been like, you’re nuts.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: You know, so it’s almost. It kind of goes back to that, just having faith and, well, it’s also.

Erin Gordon: It’S exciting, I think, for people in middle age to realize there still can be surprises in life. and that is, exciting because a lot of us have been doing the same thing for a few decades. And just, to have such a unique turn of events, in your case, is inspiring to people. Life can. Yeah. It can take you wild places.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. Yeah. This just popped in my mind, and I didn’t want to interrupt you earlier when you were saying this, but. Willow older, right? Author of the book today. I noticed.

Wendy Valentine: I was thinking about that. I’m like, what if she had not noticed this article? Like, today I noticed this article, and connecting Wendy and Aaron and in.

Erin Gordon: That meant to be.

Wendy Valentine: Meant to be. And I guess the point is too, is to notice, is to be aware.

Erin Gordon: Of what’s and to connect, to make connections. Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: So cool.

Meg would ask seven questions to every guest on her podcast

So, when you guys read the book, peeps, you’ll find out that Meg would ask seven questions to, everyone that was on her podcast. And I thought it would be fun if you and I answered them. Have you, do you remember him?

Erin Gordon: You know, it’s funny, I have the book right here. I probably could remember, most of them, but I, you know, it’s been a couple of years, so I’m glad that you’re here to refresh my memory of my own creation.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, exactly.

Erin Gordon: Yeah. Ah, Meg asked every guest the same seven questions. that was sort of the format of her, of her podcast.

Wendy Valentine: I love that I was even thinking too, because I think Jay Shetty always asks a question at the end or something like that. I was like, maybe I’ll add that, you know, add that to my book, to my podcast. so, and she always starts it out by saying peeps. Listeners, thank, you for joining me to find the world in a grain of sand.

Erin Gordon: That was my favorite college, professor used to say that you can find a world. Ah, find the world in a grain of sand. And what he meant by that was, and this is sort of my love of everyday stories, which is just, every, like the simplest story, the simplest person can still illuminate the whole world. and that’s so, yeah, I’m sort of inspired by that.

Wendy Valentine: I’ve always said that too, that I think the simplest teachings can be the most profound.

Wendy Valentine: And sometimes we’re seeking something so like, oh my gosh. And actually it could be something so simple staring at you right in the face. It’s like, oh, there it is.

Erin Gordon: Yeah. I have a yoga teacher who says that, like, the most expert yogi, like, never forgets the basics. Like, sometimes you just need to like be in downward dog or mountain pose. And that is the most, effective or inspiring or useful pose. you don’t have to be in handstand, or headstand to get the benefits of yoga. so it’s the same kind of principle, just the basics. The simple people, the everyday people, can really change your perspective on life.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. What are they called? The beginner’s mind. Right. Like looking at life through a beginner’s mind. And it’s fresh and it’s simple and. Yeah, that’s so good.

Okay, first question. What’s it like to be you right now

Okay, first question. okay, there are 7 billion people on earth. What’s it like? To be you right now.

Erin Gordon: So are you going first or am I going? You go first. Oh, okay.

Wendy Valentine: Right.

Erin Gordon: now it is great. I. You know, since peeps, I have a new book out, and that’s been really, really, exciting and interesting. Different kind of book for me. My children are 21 and 22, which is such an incredibly fun age, for me to parent them. I do really interesting work. I spend a lot of. I live in San Francisco and I spend a lot of time in Lake Tahoe. so right now, things that I’m passionate about are keeping me busy, and that is great.

Wendy Valentine: I like it. I like it. It would be fun to be you right now.

Erin Gordon: Well, right back at you.

Wendy Valentine: Especially with what we do. You have four or five books out, or more than that?

Erin Gordon: I have more than that. So I have, five. Five books out under my name. And then I’ve also written contemporary romance novels under a pen name. so I have four of those. so, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wendy Valentine: And I’m on book number one. Holy moly.

Erin Gordon: The first of many, I presume. Yes, yes, yes.

Wendy Valentine: And I’m trying to remind myself, I’m like, okay, wendy, one book at a time, one chapter at a time, one page at a time. Like, just. Okay, what is it? There are 7 billion people on earth. What’s it like to be me right now? for some reason, I want to cry. Yeah, you know what it is? I think it’s. What’s it like to be me right now? It feels so. I’m gonna cuss. Because it’s my show and I can cuss. It feels so. It feels so f m good to finally shine my light, to finally give myself permission to be windy, to not hold back. And, it feels good to finally write. I remind myself, like, in the. You know, I get up at 435 in the morning just to work on the book, and instead of, like, going, oh, my God, I gotta write a chapter today, I’m like, oh, my gosh, I get to write.

Erin Gordon: Yes.

Wendy Valentine: You know, like, I finally get to do this. I finally get to share the. Share my stories and the fact that I. I’m grateful for myself and the. And that even that. That sentence alone is pretty big for me. Five years ago, I would have never said I’m grateful for myself. Like I hated myself most.

Erin Gordon: Women, I think.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, exactly. so I’m grateful that I made all those choices all these years to get me to where I’m at. I’m glad I picked myself off the floor. I’m glad. As my aunt Annie would say, pull up your bootstraps. Okay. So I’m proud of myself for making these leaps. leaping into the unknown and having faith. And even if I didn’t have the whole thing figured out, if I didn’t have the whole story written, that I was just. I’m like, well, I’m just going to do it anyways. Leap in the net will appear. so it feels really good. It’s exciting. And I’ll admit, like, some people think, you know, oh, wendy, she’s so brave. She’s so courageous. Yes, I can be. And I can also be like, oh, my God. Like, it’s scary to, like, you know, I’m, like, putting. Putting my. My voice out into the world, putting my words out into the world and print or, you know, verbally horrible.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Like, yeah, but it’s scary, but it’s so worth it. I can’t. I can’t imagine. Imagine having not done this. Like, it. I’ll, tell you what, though. If I told myself if I didn’t take off in that rV, it would be my only regret in life. Would have been my only regret.

And so. So it feels good to be windy. Literally. Um. Yeah

And so. So I knew. I knew that something was gonna be around the corner. Literally. Yeah. So it feels good to be windy. yay.

If you could take one physical object with you after you die, what would it be

Okay, question number two. If you could take one physical object with you after you die, what would it be?

Erin Gordon: I’m not super attached to physical objects. I’m, nothing super sentimental. But I might bring a copy of my favorite book. and I don’t. I guess that’s what I would pick, as an unsentimental person and a, you know, devoted reader. How about you?

Wendy Valentine: What is your favorite book? Do you know it?

Erin Gordon: Good question. Yes, my favorite book is rules of civility by Amor Tolles. I don’t know if you’ve read it.

Wendy Valentine: I. I don’t think I either started it, and I didn’t finish it. I’m too busy writing.

Erin Gordon: You got to get back to that.

Wendy Valentine: I need to get back into my.

Erin Gordon: Yeah. He wrote gentlemen in Moscow, which is most people’s, you know, association with him. and I love that. I love all his books. But, rules of civility, which is this first book, is my favorite. Ooh. Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: You’d just be hanging out reading that book over.

Erin Gordon: Yeah, I could read that. I could. I’ve read it many times, and I can read it many more. So how about you? What would you bring with you?

Wendy Valentine: What’s the one object I would take, let’s see. My Dyson hair dryer. No, I’m just kidding. No, I mean, how am I gonna dry all this hair?

Erin Gordon: You know.

Wendy Valentine: Honestly think I would take anything because it sounds silly, but especially after moving into an rv and getting rid of majority of my belongings and after being in a world of physical form. Sounds corny and deep, but I almost, I would want to just enjoy being in spiritual.

Erin Gordon: Yeah, I get that. I mean, like I said, I’m not super attached to objects either, but I have to answer my own, so. Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Or Meg’s question. Meg.

Erin Gordon: M exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: I don’t know. I think I would rather just bask in the, the beauty of the energy, you know, the, of what we think. Right. Who knows? I mean, but I’m thinking I’ll just be in a soup of yummy spiritual energy.

Erin Gordon: Love it.

Wendy Valentine: Floating around. Let’s see.

Question number three. What’s one thing you do every day

Question number three. What’s, what’s one thing you do every day?

Erin Gordon: I meditate, twice a day. Ten minutes in the morning and ten minutes at night.

Wendy Valentine: That’s good. Why do you do that?

Erin Gordon: frankly, doctor’s orders. my doctor, I have clinical anxiety, as do a lot of women our age, I think. And, my doctor, who’s very big on studies, and she says studies show that ten minutes in the morning and ten minutes at night is where you get the most benefit. Of course, it’s not immediate. It’s cumulative.

Wendy Valentine: Right.

Erin Gordon: It’s not like you’re going to meditate and then suddenly you feel like a million bucks. But over time, you know, it really, I noticed big differences. So that’s one thing I do every day. How about you?

Wendy Valentine: I was going to say, too, to add to that, I love meditation. And meditation definitely saved me, because when I was going through all of my crap in my life, I started meditating a lot. Like, sometimes even up to an hour a day. I was like, I’m just going to hang out here. and I learned more about meditation, through Joe dispenza. Doctor Joe, uh-huh. Just learning more about what is actually, there’s actually things happening in your brain and in your body and energetically when you’re meditating and you’re not just like, sitting there for nothing. Right. So it’s actually rewiring those thoughts and your behaviors and the energy, everything. I love meditation. I’ve just started kind of getting back into it again. I kind of missed out on it for a few months there and then. so, yeah, I love meditation. I’m actually coming out with a midlife meditation series.

Erin Gordon: Oh, excellent.

Wendy Valentine: Yes. Just to go along with the book. Yeah. But, yeah, I think it’s, Meditation is such a great way to calm your mind and your body and to manifest what you want. Oh, what was the question? What’s one thing I do every day? What is one thing I do every day? I do. It sounds corny. I cheer for myself because I do. Like. And, I mean, I try to practice what I preach, but, I try to be my own cheerleader. I try to be my own best friend. Speaking of meditation, I’ve learned more about just watching this ticker tape of thoughts going across on my mind and stopping the negative, negative thoughts and those negative patterns and flipping that around and really just trying to. If I have a crappy thought about myself or about life, I’m like, stop. Like, let’s turn it around. Let’s flip it and say something positive and nice to yourself. Like, even like, the other day, I walked in from the mirror, I was like, oh, my God, I look like s***. I was like, oh, wait, wait. Let’s change that.

Erin Gordon: Yeah, I strongly.

Wendy Valentine: You look amazing. I’m so happy to be alive. You know, just.

Erin Gordon: Yeah, yeah. Being a friend to yourself is, very hard, I think, for women. And so I love that you’re cheer for yourself every day. I like that.

Wendy Valentine: I know. You’re either. You’re either your greatest cheerleader or your worst critic. You know, it’s like, what are the.

Erin Gordon: Might as well pick. Might as well pick the positive one. Yeah, exactly.

Wendy Valentine: let’s see.

Your book is a memoir of your first year as a lawyer

Question number four. What was your pivot moment? In other words, what was the moment when something shifted for you?

Erin Gordon: that’s interesting, because I think it actually ties into my. My next book after peeps. Look what you made me do, which is, you know, you said your book is part memoir, part prescriptive, self help. And mine is part memoir, part journalism. And look, what you made me do is about my. It’s a memoir of my first year as a lawyer. and that was a year that was definitely the worst year of my life. And a year filled with harassment and, a lot of, What’s the word? just a lot of difficulty and micro, harassments and gaslighting and, things you would not expect of a major San Francisco law firm. And, what happened at that firm changed my whole life. I was 25. And, it was a terrible year. but it changed my whole life. And as I said in answering the first question, I’m really happy where I am now. so I wouldn’t want to relive that year, although I did in writing this book. But, I’d say that was probably. It wasn’t a pivot moment, but it was a pivot year for me because everything changed, for me.

Wendy Valentine: Was it hard to relive that when you’re writing it?

Erin Gordon: It was excruciating. Yeah. it was the hardest book I’ve had to write. And, I’m really glad I did it. And I’m hearing from a lot of readers about how much reading my story has helped them. So I’m really glad that I kind of suffered through the pain of reliving that experience. But, It was hard. Yeah, it was really hard.

Wendy Valentine: It’s so good to share our stories. I’m like, we heal from each other’s stories. And plus, I feel like when I hear from someone or read a book from them, it makes you feel like you’re not alone. Like, okay, I’m not, like, going crazy over here, you know?

Erin Gordon: Yes. I’ve had so many people reach out to me, people that I don’t know, you know, like on LinkedIn or whatever, and saying, like, oh, somebody finally gets what I’ve experienced. Like, they reading the book made them feel like someone gets it. And that meant those kinds of messages mean everything to me. So. Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Your brother went into a coma from addiction and passed away seven days later

Erin Gordon: What was your pivot moment?

Wendy Valentine: My pivot moment? It’s interesting how we know our pivot moment right away. Feel it like a pit in my stomach. But it’s a good. It was such a good pivot. Might make me. This one might make me cry, too. it was the moment that. It was when my brother went into a coma from addiction. Yeah. And, when I got to Texas to see him. And I’ll never forget walking into, like, I can remember. Literally, I can remember that threshold from the hallway to his room. And I remember walking over that and seeing him. And he’s someone that suffered with addiction his whole life. And, when I saw him there, the machines are beeping, and it’s just like, it’s crazy. And I saw him lying there, and I just felt so much compassion for him. And I finally, I could see him no longer as an addict, but a soul with a body, if you will. Like, I just. I could, feel him, like. And I felt so bad for him, for all of his suffering and the struggling. And. And I thought about, like, here he. He fought with addiction his whole life, and fought with him about his addiction.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: You know?

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: And I just felt it. Such peace, not only just for him, but for others. Like, I. It was almost like I got new glasses, wonder woman glasses. And I see people differently. Like, okay. Like, even if someone. Not to say it’s okay, but if someone didn’t treat me well or someone was being angry or whatever they’re dealing with, I could see beyond that. I could see beyond those behaviors and know that deep down in that I call, like, a candy wrapper that they’re in.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Deep down. Like, there’s this juicy, amazing spirit in there, that is innocent and pure. And so that moment, stepping over that threshold, changed me. Yeah.

Erin Gordon: That’s really a gift that he gave you.

Wendy Valentine: I know. I always say that. When, seven days later, unfortunately, he had passed away. And I always say I’m like, my brother actually brought me back to life.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, he did. And it. As horrible as it was to deal with his death and the grieving, all of that, it’s still. It brought me so much life. Yeah. It helped me to appreciate life and to even appreciate the human body and how we live and how we get this teensy, tiny moment. Like, however, we just, like, it’s our choice in how we live our life and more conscious of. Of how we live our life.

Erin Gordon: Amazing.

Wendy Valentine: Big pivot.

Erin Gordon: Yeah, huge pivot. Moment.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, yeah. let’s see. What was the next one? Okay.

Number five, who is someone you never saw again?

Number five, who is someone you never saw again? Is there someone in your life, someone important or someone fleeting who you once knew or briefly crossed paths with, who you think about but no, no longer know or see?

Erin Gordon: So this is definitely my favorite question of Meg’s questions, because this is something I’m personally obsessed with. you know, we all have those memories of, you know, someone maybe we sat next to at a concert or passed on the street, or, you know, some really good friend who we’re no longer in touch with? and, you know, especially for those. Those random people, like, you know, even if you had a gazillion dollars, you could never find that person again, you know, obsessed with that. and, so a little secret is that in the book, every single answer that a podcast interviewee gives to this question is somebody from my life. and it was my way of, like, sort of paying homage to those people that I think about, you know, the. The kid that I was friends with in, you know, fourth grade who was at our school for literally, like, four months. or, you know, literally the. The woman I passed on the street when my son was an infant who made, like, a weird comment, comment to me that my baby should have been wearing a hat. You know, like weird stuff. Like, I’ll never forget that moment, you know? But I could never find that woman again. Right?

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Erin Gordon: And show her my perfectly happy, healthy 22 year old, you know, boy. and so, my answer to that question is, if you read peeps, every single answer to that by different podcast, guests is somebody from my life.

Wendy Valentine: Oh, yeah, I got. Now I’m going to go back to it.

Erin Gordon: Go back and read them. Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: The first thing that comes to mind, gosh, I’ve got really deep answers on mine. would be my math teacher, from high school. I can’t even remember her name. I feel bad. But long, story short, I lived on my own since I was 15. And it came to graduation time, and she overheard me, I think. I don’t know for sure it was her, but I’m pretty sure she overheard me telling my friends that I wasn’t going to graduation. And they were asking why? And I said, don’t have money for the cap and gown. Here’s more tiers. So I went to, I think it was like the next day or whatever, I went to english class and sitting on the desk was my cap and gown.

Erin Gordon: Oh, my God.

Wendy Valentine: And I knew it was her because I was thinking I didn’t tell anybody else. And it had to been her that got me the cap and gown. So I’m like, so grateful.

Erin Gordon: That is, unbelievable. Oh, my God. Maybe she’ll hear this. I know.

Wendy Valentine: So it’s like, there’s always these little angels out there, you know, and I always remember that. So, like, I try to do these little random acts of kindness myself because you don’t know how much that can literally change someone’s life. And especially for me, that was at a time I didn’t have. It was just me, myself, and I didn’t have any support, like, so for someone to actually go and, you know, pay for my cap and gown so I could graduate was just like, wow, wild story.

Erin Gordon: What a story.

Gretchen Rubin: What is your life motto

Wendy Valentine: I know I got some mini, number six, what’s your life motto?

Erin Gordon: another reason that I made this one of Meg’s seven questions is that, I, like Meg herself, was kind of struggling for a life motto. and I thought that by exploring this with different characters, I might come up with one. And, I would say, I’d say generally my life motto is be kind. But, and I know that’s like, kind of like cliche and corny or whatever, but I really, try to live my life that way. like, I don’t know when my daughter would, like, come home and complain about some annoying kid at school. I’d say, like, you don’t have to be friends with that person, but you just, you just have to be kind, you know? And, so I think generally that’s my motto. How about you?

Wendy Valentine: Ah, what is my motto? First thing that pops on mind is f*** it. But in other words, it’s like, go for it and to leap. And again, like I was saying earlier, trust the net will appear. Like, and that you are the netanyah. And to just go for it, don’t overthink it, don’t waste time, don’t waste energy, just whatever it is that pops into your psyche, like, don’t question it and just go. Just go, go, go. And because you never know. I mean, look at us. We never know what can come about. And along the same lines as life is short, it really, really is.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: I mean, if we’re blessed enough to live to a hundred, hundred years is nothing in the blink of time and eternity.

Erin Gordon: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Erin Gordon: I love that motto. That’s great.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, yeah. let’s see. Do you have any mantras or codes that you live by?

Erin Gordon: I think I’d go back to, the be kind. I also, I tend to, be very introverted and want to say no to a lot of things. And so I try to force, myself to get out of that. And so I often will tell myself no, like, choose the bigger life, you know, like, you know, if someone invites you to something and you’re not sure that’s really for you, but you know, you have no reason not to go. Just go, you know. so that’s, that is kind of a mantra. And I also am trying, very similar to yours is, as I mentioned, I have anxiety and I’m always worried and things. And so I realized I can’t force myself to, like, trust in the universe.

Erin Gordon: But I can tell myself that I choose to trust. Right? Like, if I said to myself I trust the universe, that would be a lie because, yeah, I don’t. I’m inherently like a nervous, anxious person, but if I tell myself I’m choosing to trust, that, that has become, helpful to me. So I’d say, you know, those are maybe some of the mantras that I try to, you know, put on repeat in my head.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, yeah, I like that. That’s really good. I’m trying to think, for me, what is my mantra? I guess you know what I mean? It’s. It sounds corny, but it’s almost like a. I am dot, dot, dot.

Erin Gordon: Mm

Wendy Valentine: Then it’s whatever I am saying who I am. And, you know, it’s like, I can’t think of the name of the author or even the name of the book, but the number. The top regrets of the dying, right? The number one regret is that people lived for everyone else. They did not live for themselves. And so I think about that, like, when I get to my deathbed someday, and hopefully I have the opportunity to think a little bit while I’m on my deathbed. I don’t want to have the regret of living life for everyone else. I want to be windy for whatever wendy wants to be. I mean, and that’s always evolving. but I try to, like, bring myself back to center of. Okay, I am this. I am. Ah. Happy. I’m p*. I am like. I am, a podcaster. I am a Netflix star. No, I’m just kidding. but I. I am whatever I wendy whatever I want.

Erin Gordon: And I love that. Yeah, that reminds me of, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Gretchen Rubin. but I love Gretchen Rubin. I’m like, obsessed with her. And one of her kind of mantras is Bea Gretchen. And what that means to her is that, like, for example, you know what, what somebody else might find fun, you might not find fun. Like, she had this realization, I don’t know how long ago, but that, like, she actually doesn’t really like music. And she had been trying to force that on herself or, you know, other things that she, like, she’s happiest when she is living her life.

Aaron Gordon: Midlife is awesome because you can experiment and explore

Like being Gretchen. and not, like you said, trying to live for other people or meet, you know, do things that are fun for other people that she realizes aren’t fun for her.

Wendy Valentine: It’s not her. Yeah.

Erin Gordon: And that’s. That is one of the privileges of being in middle age, I think, is that you kind of have that. Not only the realization that, you know, you should be Wendy or be Gretchen, or I can be Aaron, but that, That you have the authority to.

Wendy Valentine: Make.

Erin Gordon: Decisions based on that mantra.

Wendy Valentine: Right, right. You can take charge of whatever it is that you like and want and desire and dream. And that’s another reason I think midlife is so awesome, because you do have that opportunity to go ahead and experiment and explore and, like, I look at life as like a buffet. Like, you go up there, sample what you want, see what you like, don’t like. If you don’t like it, don’t go back. You do like it. Get seconds and thirds. But we’re so used to doing what everyone else is doing, or even what our partner is doing, and we’re like. And, of course we have to compromise with stuff. Right? But really learning what sets our soul on fire, I think that’s so exciting. Yeah.

Erin Gordon: Agreed.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. This has been so cool.

Erin Gordon: I’ve had the best time, Wendy. Thank you so much.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. And where can we find you and find all your awesome books, especially the new one?

Erin Gordon: Yeah, all my books are available anywhere you buy books, whether it’s, at an online retailer, or you can go to your independent, bookseller, which I, of course, highly recommend, and request them to order it. and, if you go to for peeps, not for the latest one, but for peeps, if you go to bookbaby, which is the publisher, I think it’s in your. Going to be in your show notes. But I’ve created a coupon for that book in particular has, to be through bookbaby. there’s, a discount for your listeners, just because, you know, it is a book about a podcasting rver. but you know that you can get any of the books anywhere, basically.

Wendy Valentine: And I love the book cover. I totally.

Erin Gordon: Thank you. I do, too. My daughter, you know, helped me design this and, yeah. So, you know, and I’m. You can. If you just Google Aaron Gordon, author, you can find my website, you know, all the goodies. Instagram all the goodies.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, yeah. And we are proof right here. Synchronicities happen.

Erin Gordon: Like, exactly. I 100% agree.

Wendy Valentine: well, I look forward to reading your other book, too.

Erin Gordon: Thank you.

Wendy Valentine: I can’t wait to share mine. Like my.

Erin Gordon: I am counting. You said it’s the end of the year, right?

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, it’ll go into preorder, either December or January. So.

Erin Gordon: Yeah, count me in.

Wendy Valentine: Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much, Erin.

Erin Gordon: Thank you, Wendy. I had the best time, and it’s great know meet you virtually finally after all these months.

Wendy Valentine: All right. Thank you, everyone. Have a great day.

Erin Gordon: Bye.