Neil Markey is the founder and CEO of Beckley Retreats

Wendy Valentine: Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Midlife Makeover show. Today we have a guest with an extraordinary journey that blends science, spirituality, and a mission to help others heal. Meet Neil Markey, the co founder and CEO of Beckley Retreats, the world’s only psychedelics retreat program. Backed by. Hopefully I can talk today. Backed by 25 years of scientific research, Neil’s path is truly unique. He’s a former captain in the US army who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and later studied at Columbia University where he faced and overcame depression and PTSD through mindfulness and psychedelics. In today’s episode, Neil will share his insights on the powerful synergy between science and spirituality, as well as the transformative potential of psychedelics and meditation. This is my third interview of the day, you guys. I’m gonna get my words out. Whether you’re curious about the future of these practices or their impact on personal growth and healing, you’re in for a fascinating conversation. Let’s give a warm welcome to Neil Markey.

Neil Markey: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Wendy Valentine: I was fine in the other two. I think I may, I probably sound like I’m on psychedelics right now.

Neil Markey: Have you done a, have you done a show about psychedelics yet?

Wendy Valentine: I was thinking about that earlier and yes, I had one other guy and I cannot think of his name right now. He’s in North Carolina and he does retreats, I believe in North Carolina.

Neil Markey: Interesting.

Wendy Valentine: Sure. Yes. but such a fascinating topic.

Neil Markey: It is. It’s quite buzzy right now, too. I love it. I’m so fascinated by it.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

So take us back, if you don’t mind sharing your personal journey with psychedelics

So take us back, if you don’t mind sharing your personal journey. What brought you to psychedelics?

Neil Markey: Sure. The short, ah is I was doing my undergrad at Maryland, University of Maryland. and then September 11 happened. You could actually see the smoke from the Pentagon at the top of the football stadium. And man, that struck something in me. And I started following what was going on in the news and then the Iraq war. Next thing you know, I joined ROTC and then went in as a lieutenant, thinking I was doing the right thing. and then by the time I got through school training, got to my unit, got to Iraq, the whole weapons of mass destruction thing was, you know, we turned out to be quite a mess. It’s really sad, actually. but I was there and, you know, I had a, I had an infantry platoon in Iraq and then I went to Afghanistan twice with the ranger regiment. And it left some marks on me. Even though I was really fortunate, I didn’t have near as tough a go as many, you know, I mean, all my fingers and toes and was on the support side of things. And a lot of the deployments it was a few steps removed from the worst of it. But it was, I mean, especially the ranger regiment, the entire unit had complex PTSD. And then I got out in 2012, and went to graduate school. And in graduate school is where like the bottom fell out for me, honest m and so I was looking for a way to feel better and I tried quite a few different traditional approaches, SSRI’s, anti anxiety medications, cognitive behavioral therapy, and some of it worked, a lot of it didn’t. And then I stumbled into this mindfulness for business leaders course, really not knowing what it was. And that just struck me in a similar way. and met this guy who ended up taking me under his wing and teaching me meditation. And I kind of really was disciplined about that. And then had the experience to have some underground psychedelic experiences. And for me those felt like they were accelerating what I was trying to do with meditation. And had this in some ways almost kind of instant central nervous system reset or release. And so that kind of began this journey twelve years ago. And then I’ve been kind of in and out of the field and have had periods where I am using them, to try and be well and be more connected.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, it’s pretty fascinating what they can do, what psychedelics can do.

What are psychedelics and how do they differ from other drugs

And I’m going to ask really basic questions because some people may or may not know about certain things about psychedelics. What are psychedelics?

Neil Markey: well, the word means mind manifesting. And interesting, depending on who you ask. They are generally like a broad category of drugs that include things like ayahuasca, psilocybin, ketamine, MDMA is in there sometimes, but they’re plants or analogs of plants, things that have been developed in the lab, like LSD, acid, and they, you know, like all medications, all drugs are dose dependent, but at a certain dose they have a dramatic impact on your sense of reality. And so it’s really hard to describe the experience because it is not like anything else you’ve ever done.

Neil Markey: Your whole world will shift. and they’ve been used for thousands of years in many communities still without pause. If you look at different indigenous communities have been using these different plants to heal and connect and for spiritual connection. So they’re really fascinating compounds that I do think have tremendous potential. And there’s this kind of resurgence of interest that’s happening right now in a big way. That is, ah, that’s exciting. And, there’s going to be. There’s going to be challenges, because they’re not, they’re not magic pills, you know, they’re not for everyone or for everything. So they need to be used wisely and.

Wendy Valentine: Ayahuasca. Yeah, okay, ayahuasca. That’s actually. That’s. Those are not mushrooms, though, right?

Neil Markey: That’s a different plant.

Wendy Valentine: Yep, totally different.

Neil Markey: It’s actually, ayahuasca in the traditional sense is actually two plants that, indigenous communities somehow, many years ago, figured out if you mix them together and then take them, they have this really profound experience. There’s one that’s kind of one plant that’s the active component, but if you just take it on its own, it won’t have any impact. And then there’s another completely different plant that you have to mix it with that does something in your body that allows the other plant to have the impact. And if you ask the communities how they figured this out, they’re like, well, the plants told us. And you’re like, well, that’s okay. but it’s just. It’s fascinating stuff. and the western world is catching up now to the science, you know, and starting to see the very demonstratable impact that it has on neural connections in the brain.

Wendy Valentine: And, yes, the neuroplasticity just, rewiring the brain. Yeah, no, psilocybin is what exactly?

Neil Markey: Psilocybin is the active components, the component that makes you trip. That’s natural in magic mushrooms.

Wendy Valentine: Okay. Yeah, gotcha. And then that’s what you’re doing at Beckley retreats. Right, the psilocybin. Okay, you’re right.

Neil Markey: We use naturally grown mushrooms in Jamaica and naturally grown truffles in the Netherlands. and that’s because the way the laws are written, you can only use, truffles in the Netherlands, but it’s essentially the same plant. The truffle is just the part that grows underground. It’s a weird legacy law. but yeah, the active ingredient, is psilocybin. Now, the field’s kind of divided on this. In a clinical trial, oftentimes you’ll get, a synthesized psilocybin. So it’s not natural. It’s been created in a lab. And there’s many people that would say that’s the same exact experience as the natural version. but there was actually just a pretty interesting report in nature, which is a very well respected, publication that actually showed that the naturally growing plant has better effects. It’s because it’s not just the psilocybin. It’s all these other compounds like you would have in marijuana. You have all these different components of the plant that have this entourage effect and complement each other. So, you know, we’re. We’re all collectively trying to learn more about, More about that.

Some people have dramatic positive outcomes after one session, and it’s not uncommon

Wendy Valentine: Do most people need just one treatment, or. Or is it, I guess it depends.

Neil Markey: It just depends because everyone’s so different, right? We all have our own stories, and I, History of experiences and trauma and desired outcomes. So what are you hoping to get out of it? But some people have dramatic positive outcomes after one session, and it’s not uncommon. I’ve seen stats and we’ve even seen this in. Our guests will say things. It’s like 70, 80% say that the experience is one of the most meaningful experiences they’ve ever had in their life. You know, they’d put it in the same bucket as, like, the birth of a child. It’s so. It’s so profound. You know, the thing is, is, you know, life keeps coming at you, so nothing is permanent. And so then it’s how you have this new perception and new, you know, sense of self and sense of reality that can be really positive. But I think what we’re finding is that if you don’t do anything, if you don’t introduce any new habits or ways of being, you’re probably going to revert back. You know, so it can be fleeting. But for some. One of the most interesting use cases that I just, you know, I just hope that we can make progress on it and get it to more people very quickly. Is end of life, because you’ve, you know, all these things, it’s like risk, reward. Well, end of life, terminal patience. You know, there’s not a lot of downside, right? Like, you know, they’re. They’re. They’re terminal. And, they’ve. There’s some really fascinating research around. You know, m most people have a tremendous fear of death, and so that last period for people can just be ridden with an anxiety. It just is. It’s just, you know, suffocating. And one or two experiences for many people completely take that away, and it’s just such a beautiful thing. We’ve had some terminal cancer patients come down on our program, and, you know, I’ve seen it in many different scenarios, but it’s like, it’s pretty. Pretty moving.

Wendy Valentine: I’ve even heard of, like, when, someone is passing away, that the family actually does it together.

Neil Markey: Yeah. Yeah. And that.

Wendy Valentine: I don’t know if there’s, like, a term for it, but, I don’t.

Neil Markey: Know if there is a term for that specifically, but it’s a beautiful thing, you know?

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. Like, to enjoy the journey together. Right.

Neil Markey: Ah, yeah. And just celebrate and connect.

Wendy Valentine: And this just blocked my mind.

Sometimes you need something intense enough to shake you out of trauma

so this. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of this term called life quake, but it’s a term used to describe positive or negative things that, an experience that can happen in our lives. It could be something like divorce or even the birth of a child, or again, positive or negative, but it really shakes you to your core. Right. Totally changes you. And I was just thinking about that with doing some of these treatments. Sometimes, like, when you really are shaken to your core by trauma and drama, like I have in my life, sometimes you do need something that really shakes you to your core again, to kind of, if you will, shake you out of it because you’re, I mean, as, you know, like with trauma. I mean, even if you’re thinking positive, your body can still be in that state of trauma. Like, it can’t, like, snap out of it. Your brain basically is still in that state of trauma and in that fight flight, freeze type of mode. And sometimes you need something intense enough to just get you out of it.

Neil Markey: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Do you find that people that come to you, are they. Are they at that extreme end or are they, like, feeling like. I kind of feel like there’s just something, you know, like, I can’t get you, know, through this depression or is it chronic? Is it short term?

Neil Markey: Right.

Wendy Valentine: What’s your typical.

Neil Markey: Our programs are explicitly non clinical or non medical, so we don’t diagnose or treat anything we’re not legally allowed to. And we actually screen out severe indications. Cause it’s just not a fit of. I think I know that there is potential for these compounds and plants and even the way that we run these programs, a group model in nature, these things for clinical indications, but it would require a different approach. You know, you’d have to kind of do it differently. So for now, we’re focused on, what we would call the betterment of the well. And it’s people that come down for, you know, a handful of different reasons. a lot of times it’s people will come down because they feel like they’re stuck, like they can’t make change in their life. They feel like, they’re just like on this loop and these, these. I think these experiences are. They’re great for that. Great for that. Because they do, they wake you, they shake you up, they give you this fresh perspective. And then I think you can introduce, you know, new habit chains and, new mental patterns. we have people come down that have just experienced some type of loss and they want to honor it, but they want to move through it. You know, they feel like it’s holding them back. we have guests come down that are kind of spiritual explorers and long time meditators. or, you know, have a religion that’s very, you know, that’s very important to them and they want to go deeper into that. I think these experiences are great for that. I mean, that’s kind of the historical use was spiritual connection to nature.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, that’s interesting. So I hadn’t really thought about that before. It’s not always necessarily for getting you out of something as it is, to kind of getting you to that next level of where you want to be.

Neil Markey: It can, yeah, I think it can be used kind of across the spectrum for severe stuff. It can get people up to more stable and for people that are actually doing, like, really well, it can get them to higher levels of empathy or creativity or connection. if you look at what it’s doing in the brain, there’s lots of different studies around this where they’ll give people psychedelics and hook them up to an fMRI brain scan so you can see connectivity and it opens the brain up. So it just in some ways, allows the brain to work at this higher function. And so I think there’ll be tons of applications for learning. You know, you think about business leaders that want to think more holistically and not do the pigeonhole thing and get focused on what’s in front of them, but to be able to zoom out applications for that, they’re really. They’re really, they’re really almost magical, magical plants if they’re, you know, they need to be used with reverence and in the right way because there are risks. but, yeah, they. There’s a lot of application.

Wendy Valentine: I was just thinking, like, with meditation, which I’ve been meditating for, I don’t know, decades now, I guess. But, you know, I think doing something like this, it’s almost like a quicker way to get it into your brain, if you will, and to make those changes. I feel like. Is the video, like, slowing down? Can you hear me okay?

Neil Markey: Yeah. I got you.

Wendy Valentine: Okay, good. I saw myself on the screen. It looked weird. But anyways, I’m telling you, it’s psychedelics today. but, yeah, meditation is a great way to get in there. And actually, I say get in there, get into your brain, and to rewire neural pathways, but then also at the same time, you can do that even faster. I feel like doing some of these treatments.

Neil Markey: I think so. I agree with that. I’m, been meditating for some time, and I think that if these plants and compounds are used in the right way, they can kind of accelerate that timeline.

If you introduce meditation around these experiences, your compliance rate goes way up

Ah, some people would say that, well, now you’re kind of back on the same hamster wheel. Trying to get to some end point and accelerating things is a little counter to what meditation is all about. But I think that there is something there. and what I hope that we can study more, too, is we know meditation, if you can get people to do it, is transformative. I mean, it radically changes people’s lives in a positive way. The problem is, generally, we can’t get people to meditate. The compliance is, like, zero. To take your average person and get them to where they’re doing it for 30 minutes to an hour a day. Zero. what I believe is that if you introduce meditation around these experiences, your compliance rate goes way up because it. It allows for this kind of body level understanding of why the heck you’re even meditating.

Wendy Valentine: Yes.

Neil Markey: That is hard to articulate to someone that hasn’t meditated for a long time. And the problem is, is you can meditate once, twice, ten times. You’re not going to get the benefit. You got to string together months, and you got to do it regularly, and then things start to shift. So I think, you know, for me, that’s what a lot of this. These experiences are all about. You know, I don’t necessarily think we will need. People need to do psychedelics all the time, but they can be this opening, and then, really, my hope is that people that come through our programs develop a meditation practice. Like, that’s the foundation. That is what gives them the. The ongoing benefit. It’s just this kind of gets the.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, it, like, it opens the door, if you will, and then it’s like, your brain is like, okay, go ahead. Like, bring, like, whatever you’re putting in there, then it’s really gonna soak it up during that integration period.

Neil Markey: Exactly.

Wendy Valentine: So I had shared with you, I did ketamine. what is. Where does ketamine fall along?

Neil Markey: All those, most people would put it in the psychedelic bucket. It’s a disassociative. so, conventionally it was used on battlefields. Medics would carry it around. If someone had a really severe injury, they’d give it to them and it would allow the person to exit the body consciously, so that they wouldn’t be in severe pain and they wouldn’t be in that anxious state. but it, it also looks, you know, if used in the right way. That’s the thing. Yeah, it has tremendous benefit, but it, it has some toxicity to it. I think everybody’s probably seen the Matt Perry stuff. It can be addictive.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Neil Markey: There’s a lot of fly by night ketamine operators out there that it’s bad. It’s bad. You know, it can be bad, but it’s like everything. It’s like the dose and the, the way.

Wendy Valentine: And I think that’s key. Right? It’s to do it a place and with people that you feel comfortable and you’re safe. And that was like, for me, like, I did mine at 10,000 waves in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and an amazing, amazing experience. And I had, you know, a psychologist there. I had a guide there. Like, it felt very safe, very comfortable. definitely took me, physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually to a whole other level. And kind of like, even through, therapy and EmdR and all meditation, all the things I’ve done over the decades, that was kind of like that final little key, I guess, to unlock, to release. I mean, so I can speak of from that experience. It was definitely worth it. but I was looking at your website. It’s amazing. Like, I want to go.

Neil Markey: I mean, we have people regularly that have done ketamine in a clinic and come down and then they’re like, oh, whoa, this is a bit different.

Wendy Valentine: Totally different.

Neil Markey: Because I do think we’re doing it in a really beautiful and. Yes, and high level way. And one of my favorite things where I think we’ll start offering some ketamine type programs in the United States next year. But I’m a big fan of, basically it’s a meditation program. And m you do it in nature and you do it with people and it’s reverent, it’s thoughtfully curated. And then you use lower dose ketamine along with the meditations. I think that’s pretty profound. And that’s in the spectrum of safety and all these things. It’s very safe if you screen,

Why do you think meditation is so important

Neil Markey: And that can give people this really profound experience with meditation that, again, I think is enough to get them to commit to doing it on their own, consistently, you know?

Wendy Valentine: So, why, why is that? Why do you think meditation so important?

Neil Markey: well, I think that meditation is in a league of its own. And sometimes it gets bucketed together with all these other well being practices. Okay, well, you could do this or this or meditate, choose your thing. But, yeah, for me, I think it’s the foundation. It’s the only thing that is the act of not doing.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Neil Markey: And I think we need to practice that. And then you can build on top of that, fitness matters, exercise, nutrition matters, community matters, all these things matter. But to me, there’s. And if you look at different spiritual traditions across the world, they all point to this. They pretty consistent that this, like, time, where you do the meditation practice is like the key. Yeah, but you know, people. You know, some people are. Believe it’s really important, but maybe not as important as how I feel, but I’m a meditator, so, you know, I’m a bit biased, but I think it’s, I think it all comes from there. It all comes from that present state of being, you know?

Wendy Valentine: Yes. Yeah. When I, when I learned from doctor Joe Dispenza, about meditation, that’s, that’s when it really shifted for me. Because before, I just kind of felt like I was like, what am I doing just sitting here, right? I was like, I was watching the ticker tape of, thoughts running across my mind. I was like, this is nuts. So, like, what is the point? But then when I connected it to, I guess it’s the left brain side of me needing to know, like, the reasoning behind it all, like, what is actually happening. But then when I realized that something is literally happening in meditation, that is different than, Yeah, yeah, totally. It’s not. It’s much different than just sitting on the couch and just, you know, like something is literally happening. And if you learn how to really, truly meditate to make it to where it’s like, can have such a great positive impact on your life. Like, it can. Oh, my gosh, it can change everything for you. But, yeah, once I. Yeah, once I learned about like, the, the neuroplasticity and rewiring of your brain and. And then even also,

Wendy Valentine: And I know you probably know this too, but for the listener. So our four main brain waves. Delta, theta, alpha, beta. Right. So when we’re sleeping, we’re in delta. Meditation is kind of like theta sometimes alpha. Alpha is like, if you’re doing yoga and you’re kind of like, in that in between state. And right now you and I are in beta, most likely the listeners in beta, because we’re like, our brains are, like firing and wiring, like, super fast. But when you go into meditation and you slow down those brain waves, that’s when you’re allowed to bring in, like, new, ah, knowledge and wisdom and positive affirmations. And that’s why I sometimes think positive affirmations, like, they’re great. And I’m all for that. But if we were just saying right now, I love myself, I love myself. I love myself. It doesn’t work as well.

Neil Markey: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: but if you’re in meditation and you’re in those slower brain waves, that’s. Then your brain is like, oh, she says, I love myself. Okay, cool. I’m gonna. I’m gonna hang on to this.

Neil Markey: You know what I mean?

Wendy Valentine: Like, it’s, it sticks easier, more. It’s got more velcro effect when you’re in meditation.

Neil Markey: Yeah, I completely agree, and I really appreciate. I just was with Joe dispenza. Not that. Oh, really?

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Neil Markey: I like his approach. I think, I’ve tried lots of different, meditation techniques, and I think they all have value. And some, you know, there’s some flavor to meditation, and some folks might make this way or that way, but a lot of traditional meditation is just about, just the presence, practice, and non attachment and just allowing things to be. And I think that’s a foundation. But I like Joe’s and others like Joe that do what you’re talking about, which is get to that state. But then when you’re in that state, you can consciously call in these, positive thoughts, and there’s something that’s really special that happens there. And I think it’s almost like a. It’s, a more active form of meditation. But I think that for me, it’s more impactful in how things actually show up in my, show up in my, in my life, I guess you could say.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, exactly. And I can see it’s quite, quite genius, really, thinking about the. Blending the meditation with the psychedelics, because that’s really going to help it stick.

Neil Markey: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: I mean, what I learned just from ketamine, just my experience was like, the integration afterwards was critical.

Neil Markey: Yeah, absolutely.

Wendy Valentine: Because as we all know, it’s so easy to kind of fall back into that same pattern.

Neil Markey: By the time. By the time you get to be a young adult, a lot of how you’re showing up in the world is these deeply rooted patterns that are based on your experiences. And so, it takes time and effort to redirect them and you got to wear them in because you’ve spent a lot of time wearing in other ones. people can have, like I said, pretty dramatic, positive windows, but generally, I think most people will revert back to the, revert back to their average if they don’t introduce some new habits and ways of being in that period, which is, you know, a couple, a few months.

Neil Markey: The verdict is out. But it looks like after these high dose experiences, you have that kind of more neuroplastic state for couple months or so. Yeah, that’s the time to.

We do programs in Jamaica and the Netherlands. We’re there because it’s fully legal

Wendy Valentine: So cool, give us an idea, like with a retreat, how many days, how does it like, just set the scene for us?

Neil Markey: Yeah. our programs we do in cohorts, so it’s twelve to 18 guests. We really like that group size for lots of different, lots, of different reasons. And, the program that we have, I’m really proud of, I think it’s one of the more comprehensive ones that are out there. So there’s a prep that starts before the retreat, which is done remotely and digitally. And it’s a couple group calls. You get to meet the facilitators, meet the other participants. for us, you can do this work one on one, and there’s value in that, but there’s something really beautiful that happens amongst people coming together and doing this stuff together. That’s where a lot of it happens, is the in between. And in that prep, you get access to our catalog of content and we’re basically starting to introduce new habits. So it’s meditation, breath work exercises, gratitude practice, like simple stuff. And we want folks to just get exposure to a handful of different techniques and try and pick a couple with meditation being a foundation, that they’ll start learning up to the retreat. And then I. We do the programs in Jamaica and the Netherlands. We’re there because it’s fully legal, so we’re a US based company. but we have operations in the Netherlands and Jamaica. So it’s federal, it’s legal from a us federal perspective, it’s legal from a local perspective. And so that means we can get insurance, we can be fully above board, we don’t have to do all this gray area, super funky stuff that’s happening in places where it’s nothing.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Neil Markey: Completely commercially legal, and it’s really important to us. And then, on the program, it’s five nights, and you know, we do it at these beautiful properties, estates.

Wendy Valentine: They’re so pretty. I saw the pictures online. I was like, I want to go right now.

Neil Markey: Yeah, I mean it’s about nature, you know, it’s about kind of getting away from the kind of hectic world that many of us live in. And, and you know, doing a digital detox of sorts for a while. And then we’re basically doing a lot of the things that we taught in the prep, but now we’re doing them together in nature. and so meditation and mindful movement and breath work exercises and you know, we use some western psychotherapy form, approaches for like the group work. So when people come together and share why they’re there and what they went out of it.

Neil Markey: And then there’s two psilocybin sessions. And those are on day two and day four. And those start in the early afternoon and they’re done, I would say in this mix of traditional and clinical way. So we’ve tried to retain some of the beauty of how some of these experiences are done. So we play live music. It’s kind of really artful. We use all naturally grown mushrooms. It’s done in a group setting. and then everyone gets their own custom amount, which is a discussion between you and the senior facilitator. So it’s between a, you know, defined range, but some people go on the lower end and some people are on the higher end depending on a handful of different factors. And Yeah, it’s really beautiful. The sessions last four to 6 hours. and, and then you know, like.

Wendy Valentine: It’S like a vacation for your soul.

Neil Markey: Yeah, it is. It’s like a vacation for your soul. I think there’s so many people that, you know, that have done the leisure beach stuff, or done the boozy mark. Yeah, whatever. And it’s like, that’s fine. Like you can do that, but like this is you can get so much more out of this, you know, like there’s real, you can get so much more out of it and it’s you know,

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, similarly, I would say like, yeah, exactly when I, when I did the ketamine treatment and that was like right when I took off in the rv by myself, solo rv journey, and I For some reason I was like, you know, I’m going to do this for myself. And again, one of the greatest things that I did was, was doing that ketamine treatment just because it the greatest gift I got out of it was getting out of my own way.

Neil Markey: Mm M that money.

Wendy Valentine: M and literally, like, sounds nutty. And I’m totally okay with sounding nutty, but during that treatment, I had a conversation with my soul, and my soul said to me, Wendy, I need for you to get the h* out of my way. I got s* to do.

Neil Markey: Yeah, yeah. we’re always in our own way. Many of us. Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: But it was like, so. It was so simple, but it was so profound. And when I came out of it, I was like, yeah. I was like, the only reason I haven’t done all the things I said I was going to do in life is because I was standing in my own way. Like, this is ridiculous. So, yeah, it was describing it. Very impactful. Yeah.

Neil Markey: on the program, and everyone goes home on day six, and then we have a integration digitally, which is really important, too. So it’s more practical exercises and access to the app. So it’s all stuff that you can do on your own. But, that post period is really important, too. That’s where you’re going to lay in these new ways of being and hopefully extend this, real positive feeling that many people leave with.

Wendy Valentine: yeah, that’s key.

Neil Markey: And we looked at, We’ve been developing this for. For quite some time, and we looked at adult learning and habit change science. And, you know, so there’s a. There’s a science to how you. How you can help people make change, you know, and that’s.

Beckley retreats can be a big investment, and it can be scary

That’s ultimately what we’re. What we’re trying to do.

Wendy Valentine: So what I find fascinating about it, it’s almost like this, you know, you line up all the dominoes and you flick that one domino. It’s like once you flick that and then the effect that it has in your life after.

Neil Markey: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: And it’s just. And without you even really realizing it, it’s like, oh, my God, you can look back. Just like Steve Jobs said. You can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. But when you have an experience like that and then years later, you’ll look back and be like, oh, my God, like, look how far I’ve come. You know, how different I am. Fascinating.

Neil Markey: It is fascinating.

Wendy Valentine: I love it, love it, love it. so how can we find you? Oh, yeah, go ahead.

Neil Markey: Well, no, I was gonna say come down.

Wendy Valentine: What did you say?

Neil Markey: I said come down. Oh, come on, program.

Wendy Valentine: You said, calm down. I was like, sorry.

Neil Markey: Jesus. On your own show. Settle down.

Wendy Valentine: No, calm down. I’m gonna calm down. And come down. I totally should. Oh, my gosh. Let’s see. How far in Jamaica from Portugal?

Neil Markey: Netherlands. Isn’t far.

Wendy Valentine: Oh, that’s true. I haven’t been there either.

Neil Markey: Well, we can follow up after this. We can figure it out.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, that would be a blast. Oh, my gosh. Be such a cool experience. I’ll be. I’ll be. For all the listeners, I’ll be your guinea pig. Be like, Wendy will do it. I feel like. Remember the. Mikey will eat it. Remember that from the, like, the life cereal. people eat it. Like, Wendy will do it. I’ll do it. Thank you so much. You’re awesome.

Neil Markey: Oh, you too.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. I mean, not that I would want you to go through all that stuff to have that experience, but I’m glad that you were the guinea pig because then now you have Beckley retreats, and then you’re helping other people. It’s an amazing butterfly, effect.

Neil Markey: Well, thank you. Well, like you just said, now I can connect all the dots. I think they were all necessary, you know?

Wendy Valentine: Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Neil Markey: I don’t, I don’t regret all of it. I’m thankful for even the. Even the challenges, because it’s, you know, made me. Gave me this opportunity, so.

Wendy Valentine: I know. Thank you. And then how can we find you?

Neil Markey: If you Google Beckley retreats, we’ll come up. and Eckley retreats is our instagram. and we do one on one calls. We do group calls. So if you just go to our website, you know, you can find all the information, and then, you know, we’re a, small, mighty company, so,

Wendy Valentine: Those are the best kind.

Neil Markey: Yeah. But we’ll. We’ll find time, you know, like, we’ll some. We have had people that you do six, seven one on one calls with before the experience. Because, folks, it’s a big. It’s a big investment, and it can be a bit scary for people. So we just, like, we care and, you know, we’ll make time to get people whatever they need and answer any questions. We’re pretty, pretty user friendly. Um.org.

Wendy Valentine: Very cool. Love it. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. I might see you soon, hopefully after I calm down.

Neil Markey: I can’t believe you thought I calmed down.

Wendy Valentine: All right, thank you, everyone. Have a great day.