Mazi Robinson is a licensed professional counselor and speaker

Wendy Valentine: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Midlife Makeover show. Today we have a guest who is all about helping women find their true voice and live their most authentic lives. Meet Maisie Robinson, a, licensed professional counselor and dynamic speaker who specializes in self worth, relationships, and navigating life’s biggest transitions. We all know that very well here at midlife. Not only is Mazi is a sought after therapist, but she’s also also the founder and director of Cultivate, a counseling center and community that encourages women to embrace joy, courage, and freedom. Love it. Today, Macy will be diving into some powerful topics, like battling the inner critic and overcoming imposter syndrome. Some of my favorite topics. With her wealth of experience and relatable approach, she is here to guide us toward greater emotional, relational, and spiritual health.

Everyone has an inner critic, right? Yeah. I guess we all do, right

So grab a cup of coffee, tea, whatever it may be, settle in, and let’s get ready for a fantastic conversation with the amazing.

Mazi Robinson: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Wendy Valentine: Me, too. Well, I’m always glad to be here. When I’m here all the time, I feel like I’m always there. Yeah. Like I was sharing with you before this topic of the inner critic. It is one of my favorites.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: And probably one of the things that I struggled with the most and I didn’t. I guess we all do, right? I mean, isn’t that probably like we’re our worst enemies sometimes?

Mazi Robinson: Absolutely. And yes, we all do have an inner critic. Some people’s inner critic, it’s. It’s louder than others, you know? And some people have an inner critic that’s just much more talkative and likes, to discuss a wide variety of topics in their life. And then for some people, their inner critic is just much more selective and hones in on one specific area. But everyone has, has an inner critic. Yes.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. I’ve always said it’s like your mind is either your best friend or your worst enemy, your greatest cheerleader or your greatest critic. Right. And who gets to decide? It’s, we do. You do, right? I do. Like, we’re the ones that decide who you’re going to listen to, who’s going to have the louder voice, really.

Mazi Robinson: Right, exactly. Exactly. one of the analogies or stories that I often use when I’m speaking to groups about inner critic, it’s, the old Cherokee, fable. Maybe you’ve heard of it, about the grandfather who’s talking to the grandson, and the grandfather says, I have two wolves that are battling within me. There’s the wolf of hate and jealousy and envy and criticism and judgment and darkness. And then there’s the wolf of hope and joy and light and love, and the grandson says, well, which wolf wins? And the grandfather says, the wolf that I choose to feed. And it’s so true. Are we going to feed our inner crowns? Are we going to continue to give it the mic? Are we going to continue to live in a way that reinforces our inner critic? Which what that means is, you know, our inner critic constantly tells us what we can’t do. That that’s. That’s kind of it. That’s really what it’s focused on, what you can’t do it. And it never says you can do anything. It’s always a can’t. And the way that we behaviorally and reinforce our inner critic is we don’t do those things. And so every time you don’t do the thing that your inner critic is trying to tell you not to do, you feed that wolf. And that wolf wins, so to speak. And so, yes, we get to choose which part of our spirit we feed.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. The key is to fatten the good wolf.

Mazi Robinson: That’s right.

Wendy Valentine: And, like, starve the other wolf. Sounds bad, but it’s true. And I was laughing about that because I put that in my book. I put that in the book. Yes. And it was talking about becoming your own BFF. Like, that’s the chapters. Become your own BFF. And really, it’s like, yeah, to speak kind words to yourself, because then if you don’t, you really do hold yourself back.

Mazi Robinson: Right. And it is. It’s being very aware of that inner dialogue, I think. And. But I think for a lot of us, we aren’t even fully aware of the inner dialogue because it is like white noise. And so, I’ll notice this with clients or when I’m talking with folks that, they don’t even realize what they’re thinking or what they’re saying about themselves is critical because it’s just how they think. Because the reality is, some of us are more critical thinkers. That’s how our brains are wired. And so it is becoming aware of that inner dialogue, becoming really hearing what it is we’re saying to ourselves, not believing it, but really hearing. And then it is changing the inner dialogue, but taking it that step further and changing our behavior because it is both. You know, we hear so much about affirmations and positive self talk, and all of that is really, really important. But if you aren’t changing your behavior and you’re not applying for the job. You’re not applying for the promotion. You’re not distancing yourself from the toxic relationship. It really doesn’t matter how much you work on changing that inner dialogue because the experience of your life is still the same. And reinforcing that negative dialogue.

Wendy Valentine: Yes. Who was it that said? Was it. Maybe it was Buddha. When what you think, what you say and what you do, is in alignment, that’s when you’re in harmony. I can’t remember who said that might have been.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah, but I think that’s so true.

Wendy Valentine: Absolutely right. Because that makes sense. If you’re thinking one thing and you’re doing another, you’re not incongruent with who you truly are. You’re not being authentic because you, yeah, you can sit here and say all those, oh, I am wonderful, I am amazing and I am successful. And. But then if you’re not following through with that, first of all, those thoughts are not going to stick.

Mazi Robinson: Exactly.

Looking at how we are living reinforces the inner critic, so important

They aren’t going to stick. It’s just like if, you know, you shared with me you just finished writing your book, and if I, for years, you had told yourself, I can write a book. I have something to say. I have something to share. But you never put pen to paper or finger to keyboard. You’re right. It wouldn’t stick. And so that behavior, looking at how we are living and are we living in a way that reinforces the inner critic, that reinforces the negative dialogue, is so, so, so important.

Our inner critic is the most wounded, scared part of ourselves

Wendy Valentine: Where does the inner critic come from? Where was that born? Where was that little devil born?

Mazi Robinson: This is my favorite part to talk about when it comes to the inner critic, because a lot of us, again, we think of our inner critic as, like, this warped part of ourselves, this dark side, the shadow side, this inner bully, like, this really broken part of our, this messed up part of ourselves. But that’s not, that’s really not it at all. Our inner critic is the most wounded, scared part of ourselves. It is that wounded, scared inner child. And our inner critic is rooted in our deepest wounds, our deepest hurts, and our deepest fears. And it’s such a reframe to think about our inner critic in that way. Because when you think about your inner critic as a bully, what do we all want to tell a bully? We want to tell the bully to, shut up and go away. Right. But it, but when you think of the inner critic as this scared, wounded, hurt inner child who maladaptively so unhelpfully so, is actually just trying to keep you from being hurt again, when you think of it that way. You think, oh, well, gosh, what does every scared, wounded, hurt child who’s acting out inappropriately need? They actually need care. They actually need to be brought in. They don’t need to be pushed away. They need to be brought in. They need to be told, or they need to be said to, wow, I see that you are really upset right now. Tell me what’s going on. Tell me what you’re really afraid of. And that’s ultimately how we gain freedom from our inner critic. That’s ultimately how we turn down the volume, is we recognize, oh, gosh, this is just the most wounded, scared part of myself.

I had this fear of abandonment since I was a child

And so let me get curious. What is it that I’m afraid of when I tell my I’m going to fail, when I tell myself I can’t do that or I’m not good enough to try for that? What is it that I’m really afraid of? What is it that I’m afraid is going to happen? What is it that I’m afraid is going to happen again? Because it’s usually the again that’s really driving the fear that then is driving the loudness of the inner critic, because we don’t want to fail again. We don’t want to be disappointed again. We don’t want to be rejected again. And so then getting to that original wound of, oh, when I was in 8th grade, and I raised my hand and I didn’t know the answer, and then my rude teacher just blasted me in front of a class of 30 teenagers. Yeah, that made a mark. And I don’t want to do that again. But then we can kind of chase the fear and go, okay, well, what’s different now? What’s different about my middle aged self compared to my 13 year old self? What do I know now that I didn’t know then? What do, what are the resources I have at my fingertips now that I didn’t know? then. And, we can kind of chase the fear and then eventually find the truth, which is, I can do it. It’s going to be hard. It’s full of uncertainty and unknowns, but I actually can do it. And at the very least, I can try. I can try.

Wendy Valentine: Exactly. I love that you said that. Kind of like looking at your inner child in a different way, instead of it being the bully that you hear in your head all the time. It’s like, okay, no, like, I got this. And I think that’s what really turned around for me probably six plus years ago. And then if I had not kind of had that realization with my inner child, my little Wendy, as they call her.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Then I wouldn’t be sitting here, honestly. I still would have been like, trying to hold back and listen to her because she was scared for me to go out there and do all the things in the world that I really, really wanted to do. And I love that you said that. It really is getting underneath it. It’s like, okay, well, why are you scared to start that business? Why are you scared to get out of that relationship or get in that relationship? Like what? Like there’s, there’s something underneath. Like, you have to keep digging and digging and digging. It took me a long lot of digging. Yeah, digging for years, you guys. But the. My realization was, is that I had this fear of abandonment since I was a child. And then I put up all these different defense mechanisms, right. Because of that. And I realized it hit me. I was like, my. I became my greatest fear. I was so scared of becoming abandoned. But what ended up happening is that I was abandoning myself.

Mazi Robinson: Yes.

Wendy Valentine: It was like, I will never forget the day. I was like, ding, ding, ding. And it’s like so simple, but until like, it clicks for each person, right? Then you’re like, oh, I get it. And I just like, sounds so corny, but it probably doesn’t in the therapy world. I had a conversation with little Wendy and I was like, girl.

Mazi Robinson: Yes, yes.

Wendy Valentine: You know, I was like, thank you so much for protecting me for all those decades. And you did amazing. But I got this. I got this s***. Like, now you can relax and just be a little girl. You will not be abandoned. You’re, you’re, you are loved, you are taken care of. Like, we’re gonna do this. And it’s like, I will never forget that moment of just like, ah, having peace. And I could breathe and be like. And also, too, as a human being, we have this defense mechanism. Like the fight flight freeze. Like, it’s like our brain is looking for something to be scared of. But like, as the human beings that we are now, compared to like hundreds and thousands of years ago, we’re not like being, you know, chased by tigers. Hopefully not. But, you know, now it’s like we’re basically chasing kind of like being like, running from the silliest of things in our head.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah, yeah. The tiger lives within, so often. But I love that you did that. That’s exactly. And it does, it sounds woohoo. And if you don’t, you know, kind of live in the therapy world, people are like, you want me to do what? You want me to talk to who? You want me to visualize what. And, But that’s it. That’s how we heal, that’s how we break free, is you, do you visualize that? Because there’s an age and I, and my guess is that you knew the age to bring up to your mind there’s an eight. Yeah, for sure. Right. And so you visualize yourself at that age and you have that conversation and you do all the things that you said, you thank them because they were just trying to protect us, right? Yes, they’re just trying to. Right. And thank you. I see what you’re doing. I see it, I see it. But you know what? I’ve got us, and we’re going to do this and we’re going to be okay.

Steve Jobs: It’s scary to leave your comfort zone, right

And that pulling in and that dialogue, it is, it, it is so powerful when we can do that. And yes, I am sure it, you probably felt like chains had just been so.

Wendy Valentine: It’s so great.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: I mean, to me, like, I, that was like one of the biggest blocks, in my life, and it was myself.

Mazi Robinson: I mean.

Wendy Valentine: Right. Like, I mean, usually that’s what it is. That’s standing in our own way, is ourselves.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah, absolutely.

Wendy Valentine: Like, because if, and I mean, we like to think, like, oh, it’s because of what so, and so it, might think or their opinion or is it our ability? No, like, it’s just ourselves, like blocking ourselves.

Mazi Robinson: Right, right.

Wendy Valentine: As a form of protection or whatever. But it’s, life is so short. It’s just, it’s like, who are you gonna like, which wolf are you gonna feed?

Mazi Robinson: Yeah. Absolutely. Life, life is so short. And we are often the person standing at the exit to the prison cell, so to speak, you know? And, and if, if we can recognize that, and if we can recognize, you know, that our comfort zones can become our prison cells, right?

Wendy Valentine: Oh, yeah, for sure.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah. We decorate them real, real pretty so we don’t recognize, you know, that there are bars on the windows, we’re like, no, I put up curtains. It’s great. But if we, if we recognize that, oh, gosh, I’m the one that’s standing at the doorway. I’m the one that’s blocking the exit. And if we recognize why we’re doing that, I’m doing that because it’s scary to leave the comfort zone.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Mazi Robinson: It’s scary to take the risk. So of course I’m going to block myself from doing it. Like, it all makes sense when we slow down and stop to think about it rather than just believe the onslaught of negative self talk. Right?

Wendy Valentine: Yep.

Mazi Robinson: And just recognizing, no, it’s scary to leave what we know, whether it’s a relationship or a job, or to leave the comfort of not doing something and then doing something. It is scary because it’s unknown. And it doesn’t matter how confident you are or how much you love yourself. We’re wired to be suspect of the unknown. It’s part of our fight or flight response. It’s part of our survival mechanism. And just recognizing that takes power away from it. It helps us, again, if you visualize it, it helps us step away from the exit to the cell so that we can move forward into the path that we feel called to start walking, you know?

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. I’ve always said a, ah, comfort zone is a beautiful place, but nothing ever grows there.

Mazi Robinson: Right? Exactly. It’s a great place for respite. There are seasons where we need to be in that comfort zone, but it’s not where we live. You know? we are so much more alive and we feel so much more alive when we are outside of the comfort zone. And yes, it’s scary and it’s nerve wracking and, and you really have to just, be aware of all the worst case scenario thinking and, and, you know, guard your heart against that and so forth and so on. But you feel so much more alive outside of the comfort zone than when you try to set up shop there.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, exactly. I was just thinking back of years and years ago when, I mean, I used to talk, about comfort zone, my uncomfortable comfort zone, that, you know, there’s a difference between complacency and contentment.

Mazi Robinson: Yes.

Wendy Valentine: And I confused. I remember, like, I would give myself a hard time, like, wendy, you should just be content. Just stay here, you know, stay in this marriage, stay in this relationship, stay in this job. Like, why can’t you just, you know, you’re being a brat. Just stay here. And then I feel like, I feel it’s not me. it’s not windy, it’s not. I’m not being authentic by staying here.

Wendy Valentine: And until you step out of it that you can’t really see it, then it’s like, oh, and then as you look back, right, it was like Steve Jobs said, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. Right. And it’s like, as you look back and I’m like, oh my God, I would not be who I am today if I had not moved away from that dot and out of that comfort zone, you know?

Mazi Robinson: Yes, exactly.

Are you content or are you yearning for more

And I think that’s so important to get curious with ourselves, you know, am I content or am I complacent? and how do I know the difference within myself of complacency and contentment? And then kind of the other side of that coin is if you do feel yourself kind of yearning to step outside that comfort zone, yearning for more to get curious about that, am I yearning for more? Because I really want to do this because I can see the vision, I can see the path. I can see that, you know, I may not always believe it, but I can see that I have the gifts and the strengths and the talents and the know how to do this thing. And I feel passionate about this thing. Or this is the other side that it’s really interesting to get curious about. Am I yearning? Because I think that will make me more.

Wendy Valentine: Yes.

Mazi Robinson: and, and then we do kind of, we can get kind of caught in a cycle of discontent, of like, if I can just get, if I can just, if I can just. Right, and then I’ll be worthy, then I’ll be successful. And so it’s just so helpful to get curious about both sides of the coin. The complacency versus the contentment and the yearning versus the discontent, you know? And it, because each time it will be different. That’s what I found. Each time it will be different.

Wendy Valentine: Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And I was thinking about this the other day that, like, the, one of the most beautiful parts about midlife is that it’s, it’s this. More learning about yourself. But, but mostly unlearning.

Mazi Robinson: Yes, lots of unlearning.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, I mean, that really, that’s what comes down to, like, the inner critic.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: You’re unlearning all of these limiting beliefs and these thoughts and even the behaviors. Like, wait, is that me? Is that really what I think? Is that really what I want? And where did that come from? And, and it’s amazing that I think it’s, neuroplasticity hasn’t even really been around for that long of like 30 plus years that they finally realized that, yes. You can actually rewire your brain.

Mazi Robinson: Absolutely.

Wendy Valentine: And that’s what’s fascinating, is that when you do start to really focus on those limiting beliefs and those negative thoughts and you replace it with something positive and empowering, how your brain and your life and your body and everything can change. Like, not, not just voodoo, like, actually feel, you know what I mean, like, you can literally change.

Mazi Robinson: It can. It can. I can’t remember who said this, but I heard this quote years ago. You don’t have to be who you were. You don’t have to be who you were. And we have the ability to change. And change is scary, and change is usually always going to be hard work, but you don’t have to be who you were. You don’t have to react the way you used to. You don’t have to do things the way you used to. You don’t have to believe the things you used to believe about yourself. And. And I so agree that midlife, it is a season of unlearning. It is, what I’ll often say is, it is. It is a season of unpacking the suitcase you have or the suitcases you have carried up until this point. And it’s figuring out what you no longer need. It’s. And figuring out what you want to take with you into the second half. but I love that. Yeah, it’s midlife is completely unlearning, and that can be very destabilizing. Like, that can be a very scary process of, you know, recognizing, oh, gosh, I built my entire life on this mindset or this belief, or, this is how you do life. And that’s not necessarily the case that. That, you know, we do need to acknowledge that that can be very unsettling. And, yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, it certainly was for me. I mean, I had the realization I was like, s***. And I’m gonna, like, I literally had to deconstruct my whole life just to reconstruct a new life. And sometimes you have to do that. And I think, one of my greatest. Aha. Cause was, I think maybe it was, I had read the untethered soul, and he was talking about basically, like, really watching those thoughts, you know, the ticker tape of thoughts coming across in your mind. And then when I had the realization, like, oh, well, I’m the one that creates that. And then when I noticed that the just awful thoughts that were coming across on this ticker tape and that was running my life, and I was like, well, wait a minute, if I chose that, almost felt like I was. I had brainwashed myself into becoming this negative woman that was weak and can’t do anything, I’m not good enough, and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, well, if I brainwashed myself that way, I can brainwash myself the other way.

Mazi Robinson: Uh-huh.

Wendy Valentine: I was like, I almost, like, I was like, I’m just gonna be my own little guinea pig. And I’m like, here, you know, like, let me just see what happens if I speak really nice to myself and I do all these amazing things that I’ve always said I was gonna do, and I just, like, go for it. Like, what the h***? Like, why not? Right?

Mazi Robinson: Exactly. And I think that’s a great way to think about it, is let me just do an experiment, you know, just see what happens.

Wendy Valentine: Right, right.

Mazi Robinson: And if nothing happens, well, then I guess I’ll just stick with what’s familiar. Although I hate it, but, you know, but to think of it as an experiment. And I think the other thing that sometimes we forget is that it took years of repeating those negative messages to ourselves for those messages to become beliefs that guided our life. And it is going to take longer than two weeks or even four weeks of new behaviors and new thought patterns to rewire all of that. It, you know, consistency is so important. And even if you don’t believe it, doing the new behavior, saying the new thought, stopping the old thought, but that can it. Rewiring is possible, but it does take time. And I think sometimes in our instant gratification, we’re like, I’ve been telling myself I love myself for three days, and I’m not feeling it.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, well, you can’t just, like, swipe and you’re. You’re good to go. Yeah. I always say, like, Rome.

Acting is hard work, but it’s worth it, right

Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither will the new you. Right.

Mazi Robinson: It’s exactly.

Wendy Valentine: Oh, it takes time, but it’s so freaking worth it because it’s a whole new world. You’re living life as a whole new woman.

Mazi Robinson: Right, right. It is hard work, but, one of the things that I’ll often say, it’s hard work, but you are worth the work. You are worth the hard work. And you can do the hard work. We absolutely can do the hard work of that. Rewiring and unlearning and learning anew. Yeah, yeah.

Wendy Valentine: And going back to what you were saying before about the acting or the, you know, your behaviors of matching that. And I always thought that, too, is like, well, I have, you know, you act like the woman that you want to become. You don’t wait to become her.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Like, think of how. How would she walk into a room? How does she eat, how does she take care of her body? How does she speak? How does all of that, like. And I mean, really, it’s all acting. You just act however you want it. I’ll never forget my any. Like, when I was having my breakdown moment, several of them. And she’s like, well, darling, she’s from, not Tennessee. Well, she’s from Tennessee, but Arkansas, too. And she’s like, well, you’ve always wanted to be an actress. She’s like, well, why don’t you just act like the woman you want to become? And I was like, genius.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah. The best piece of professional advice I’ve ever been given. So, I’ll try to make this short, but before I was a therapist, I had kind of a life. Before I was a therapist, I was a vocal performance major in college. Yeah, very interesting road. And so in that life, I was a classically trained opera singer. I was a lyric soprano. And so after undergrad, I went to grad school to get my master’s invoice, and then I decided to leave, and that was a whole thing. And, you know, talk about deconstructing. And so I thought, well, I gotta figure out what I’m gonna do with my life. And so I was like, well, I’ll become a high school history teacher. Because that just seemed to the opposite of being an opera singer, and it comes with health insurance. And so I went back to school to get my teaching certificate. And so about a year into getting my teaching certificate, a job opened up in the area. And so I was like, well, I’ll apply for this job. I’d never applied for a job before. I’d never taught a day in my life. And I was talking to one of my professors, and I was telling him, that I was applying for this history job. Ah, it was a high school history job. I was 23 years old. The whole thing was just crazy. And, and he gave me, and he knew my background, and he gave me the piece of advice. He said, maisie, the one thing you have been trained to do is act. Go in there and act like a teacher. And I was like, well, I absolutely know how to do that. I know how to act like a teacher. I’ve been watching them my entire life. And I was like, yes, I will go in there and act like a teacher. And then I taught high school for several years, and, and then I went back to grad school, and I’m doing this. But, but to your point, like, that was, that was a life changing, eye opening piece of advice? well, yes, I do know how to do that. And so even now, sometimes in life, if I’m nervous about a speaking event or something, I’ll be like, act like a speaker. Well, I know how speakers act. I know how.

Wendy Valentine: Exactly.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah, I can do that. I can do that.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, yeah, I’ve thought of that too. Like, whenever if I’d go out on stage with hundreds of people in the audience, I’m like, okay, how does a strong woman act? And, like, I would even do my little wonder woman pose, you know, like, put my hands on my hips, and it’s like, this is how she acts, and this is how she talks, and she’s gonna go out there and kick smash. You know? Like, you just have to, like, get into that little zone there.

Mazi Robinson: Right. We have to act into the belief. Sometimes. Sometimes the belief comes first and the actions change, and sometimes we have to act into the belief. Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Yes.

More women than men report experiencing imposter syndrome, according to research

So let’s talk about imposter syndrome. What? This is a term that’s being thrown around all, all over the place. So what exactly is imposter syndrome?

Mazi Robinson: I like to think of imposter syndrome as, like a. An offshoot of the inner critic.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, I know. I know. It’s like they go hand in hand, right?

Mazi Robinson: They do, they do. I feel like inner critic is the foundation, and then imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome is really fascinating. It is. and the reason I say it’s an offshoot of the inner critic is because it’s a very focused inner dialogue, if you will. It’s the fear of, It’s the fear that you are not enough, and people are going to find out that you’re not enough. and what’s fascinating is not everyone experiences imposter syndrome, whereas, like, everyone, to some degree, will have an inner critic. Not everyone experiences imposter syndrome. More women than men report experiencing imposter syndrome. But what’s really fascinating is people who are m. It is usually the people who are very successful. I was just gonna say that imposter syndrome. And so it’s not necessarily the person who’s floundering or failure to launch or whatever. It’s actually the CEO. It’s actually the president of the company. It’s actually the woman who’s knocking it out of the park. And it is, this fear of being found out that you think I’m awesome, you think I’m highly capable, you think I’m intelligent, and I can do all these things, et cetera, et cetera. But I fear that I’m not. And what if you find out that I’m not? What if you find out that I’m an imposter? What if you find out that I’ve just been faking it? What if you find out that I’m a fraud. What if you find out that I don’t know as much as you think I know? And so, it’s so interesting because on the outside, you would never know that on the inside, these individuals are riddled with this really brutal self doubt and in some ways, self denial. Because when we struggle with imposter syndrome, it is like we deny the evidence of our life. And we deny that, no, I am doing well, I do know what I’m, I m do know what I’m doing. I do know what I know. I can speak up in this meeting. I do have the knowledge, the information, the background, the expertise, the experience. And so it’s this weird and very painful self denial of, nope, I’m not going to believe the evidence of my life. And I’m just going to keep churning inside, questioning myself, doubting myself. And then what happens is that individuals with imposter syndrome then just keep working harder and harder and harder and harder. And let me get one more certification, let me take one more class, one more person. let me read one more book. Let me, you know, trying to prove.

Wendy Valentine: Themselves, basically to themselves.

Mazi Robinson: Yes, yes. That is it. It’s trying to prove themselves to themselves. It’s not externally focused on, let me prove to other people so much because they will say, people think I know what I’m doing, but they don’t really know. They don’t really know that I don’t know what I’m doing. So I need to. It’s such a vicious, vicious cycle. And the thing about imposter syndrome is, yes, initially, when you recognize, oh, I think I struggle with this. You do want to get curious of like, oh, gosh, is this rooted in some negative beliefs, negative self talk, so forth and so on? just me not believing myself. But a lot of times we struggle with imposter syndrome because of the system we’re in. It’s not necessarily an us issue. It is a systemic issue. And that’s an important thing to recognize.

Wendy Valentine: Well, yeah, I mean, we’re always compared, especially, and not to give the Us a hard time, but especially in the US, it’s very, very competitive. And, yeah, it’s. I hadn’t really thought about that before. And I mean, you look on social media and it’s like, good, like, take five minutes, you’re like, man, guess I wasn’t good enough.

Mazi Robinson: Like, right, exactly. That, comparison. Or, you know, particularly in the workplace, if you, if you don’t see yourself across from the table for, you know, if you don’t see yourself across the table, it is very likely that you’ll struggle with imposter syndrome, because that question of do I belong here? There’s nobody else like me at this table. And so it plants that seed of do I belong here? Do you know, oh, let me work harder to earn this seed at the table. And so things like that, not seeing ourselves represented in the workplace or where we’re trying to go, if we have received messages again from the system that we’ve lived in, whether that’s family or workplace of, oh, you know, smiths, we’re not good at math, you know, and so if that’s what you heard, that, like my family, we’re just not good at math. You are going to believe you’re not good at math. And you, so who, don’t give me a budget, you know, don’t give me any, you know, and, and it’s the system. It’s not you. Do you see what I’m saying?

Wendy Valentine: Yes, exactly.

Imposter syndrome can get louder or softer depending on what season you’re in

So interesting. I thought about this today, when, you know, just preparing for our talk, and, and I was like, imposter syndrome. I was like, you know, I’ve had imposter syndrome majority of my life.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: And then I thought about, like, well, where did it go? I don’t have it anymore. And I didn’t. And not saying that this is the solution, but this is what worked for me. And I didn’t even know I did this, but I focused on that inner critic.

Wendy Valentine: And the inner critic basically helped to eliminate that whole imposter syndrome. Like, I don’t, I don’t think about that anymore. I was like, oh, I guess it’s gone.

Mazi Robinson: Like, like, where did it go?

Wendy Valentine: I’m glad it’s gone. otherwise I wouldn’t be able to do what I’m doing right now.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah, exactly. And again, with similar to the inner critic, we don’t have to live trapped in the clutches of our imposter syndrome, you know? And it’s also important to recognize, again, similar to the inner critic, our imposter syndrome can get louder depending on the season that we’re in. So, for instance, in seasons of burnout, you know, back during the pandemic, everybody was burned out professionally. In seasons of burnout, it’s very common that our imposter syndrome will get louder because when we are professionally burned out, we feel less effective in our role. We have a decrease in self efficacy. And so that thought of, I don’t know what I’m doing. this job is bigger than me, they think I know what I’m doing. What if they find out I’m a fraud? Like, that gets really loud in burnout. And then when we are out of burnout, we have a much softer imposter syndrome. I mean, I’ve seen this with myself. again, during those Covid years, like others, I experienced pretty significant professional burnout. And my imposter syndrome was so loud. And I would say that previously in life, it had, you know, kind of hummed along at like a three, you know, but in. And when I was feeling burned out, it was like at a ten, it was really, really loud. And it’s been so interesting coming out of that burnout season that that voice is not as loud anymore. Like, that was such a symptom of my burnout and where I was in that season. So that’s another kind of interesting thing to remember.

Wendy Valentine: And I would think, too, just, inner critic imposter syndrome awareness, that’s key. Just really, really tapping in to what you’re thinking, what you’re feeling, how you’re behaving and just checking in with yourself.

Mazi Robinson: Absolutely. And again, it’s learning to listen for that inner dialogue and then get curious about it, you know, like, oh, I hear that thought of, I’m afraid that I’m not going to be able to live up to their expectations. I’m afraid I’m not as good as they think I am.

Wendy Valentine: Yep.

Mazi Robinson: Okay, where is that coming from? Today is happening in my life that that old thought is suddenly now. Has. Has suddenly now been given the mic. And what is the evidence that it’s not true? What is the evidence that it’s not true? The evidence is that I consistently do well on this project. I consistently do well on these tasks. Does that mean I’m perfect all the time? No, but I have consistency. And so, again, with imposter syndrome in particular, I find that it’s very important to look at the evidence of your life as a way of. No, I understand emotionally where that thought’s coming from. I’m scared. I feel overwhelmed. I’m burned out. But let me look at the evidence and I’m going to believe the evidence. Whereas with our inner critic, it ultimately the healing and freeing ourselves from that inner critic, it is that internal healing and, and so forth.

You almost said, just have to have conversations with yourself. Yeah. But you do have to kind of like seven

Wendy Valentine: You almost said, just have to have conversations with yourself. Oh, we do anyways, right? We don’t want to admit it, but chatting with ourselves all day long, all the time. But you do have to kind of like seven. Like, okay, girl, like, mm.

Mazi Robinson: Mm.

Wendy Valentine: Like, we’re not doing this.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Mazi Robinson: And. And just getting comfortable with that conversation and. Yeah. and again, knowing what it is that you are actually saying to yourself and then getting curious about it.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. Getting curious and not being afraid to challenge the truth of it. Like, is this really, really true? Like, come on. I mean, there are so many things that m, like, when I look back and think back of, like, the stuff, I’m like, oh, my God, I’m so silly. The stuff that I would get just so worked up about. And I was, like, a chronic worrier. So bad. I. This is so bad. Where I would. I, like, I wouldn’t sleep because I’d be just constantly worrying about the dumbest stuff, just stuff I made up. And it would like to spiral in my head. I’m like this, like, crazy.

Mazi Robinson: Yes. Just those worst case scenarios. You know, the thing about the worrying and in our, worst case scenario thinking so often when we do that, and this is, again, something that can be helpful for us to remember, is we feel out of control about something in our lives. And so we’re trying to think of the worst case scenario so we can plan for the worst case scenario so we can fill in control when it possibly happens. Right. And that can just be a helpful, bell ringer of, like, wait a minute. I have just pictured 14 people that I know dying, losing all of my money and becoming homeless. Okay? I’m clearly feeling out of control somewhere in my life. So where is it in my life that I’m feeling out of control? Let me tend to that. Rather than continuing to write these worst case scenarios, trying to gain artificial control by thinking of horrible things that are going to happen and then trying to problem solve them. Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, exactly. The one of my favorite, prayers, the serenity prayer. That’s what kind of would get me through those moments.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: And God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I. And the wisdom to know the difference.

Mazi Robinson: Yes.

Wendy Valentine: And that right there, I’d stop and be like, okay, what can I change here? What do I have control over? Like, truly have control over and just kind of, like, take a step back and, like, okay. Approach it from a calmer, more peaceful, realistic way.

Mazi Robinson: Right, exactly. what can I control? There’s a lot that I. That we can’t control, but, gosh, there’s a ton we can control, you know? Yeah, there’s exactly, again, going back to you and your book, you can’t you can’t control what happens with the book once it is released. But you had control over when you started writing. You know, like, we do have control and. And focusing on the things we can control.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, yeah. The book has definitely brought up some, like, I shared with you the self doubt, all of that. The imposter syndrome starts, but now with awareness, I noticed that I’m like, oh, oh, no, we’re not going there. We do not have time for that. No, no. Yeah, the Bob Newhart video, that’s. It’s on YouTube. It’s hysterical. Did you ever see that where he says, what? How does he say? He’s like, no, or no? He’s like, just stop it. Just stop it. Did you see that?

Mazi Robinson: It is the best video. There are some days after work that I will just like, like, pop that on. It is just the best skit. And he’s like, stop it. And then she says something about washing her hands, and he’s like, no, that, that makes sense, doing that.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. And as soon as she brings up, like, chow, he goes, oh, no, we don’t go there. We definitely do not go there.

Mazi Robinson: It’s such a good idea.

Wendy Valentine: Whoever’s listening, he’s like, or just go to, on YouTube. What is it? Just stop it. Bob Newhart, if you google that on YouTube, it’s hysterical. Oh, my gosh. But point is, like, so I will hear his voice going, just stop it. Just stop it.

Mazi Robinson: Yeah. The, what I’ll say to myself, my mantra that I’ve used for many years now is, we’re not doing this today. We are not doing this today.

Maisie Robinson has an online course called uncomplicating love

And it’s, you know, it’s kind of the whole thing. If we’re not doing this today, if you want to do all this tomorrow, kind of talking to my inner critic, you can, but we’re not doing this today. We’re going to keep walking. And I kind of picture myself, like, talking to a child who’s like, we’re not doing this today, and we’re going to keep walking. Let’s go. So come on. We’re going to keep walking into the arena. It’s scary, but we’re not doing this today. We don’t have to do this today. Let’s go.

Wendy Valentine: I also do the, Ain’t nobody got time for that. I’m like, I’m like, you do not have time for that today.

Mazi Robinson: I know, right, right. Exactly.

Wendy Valentine: So good. I learned so much just from my own shows. Yeah, it’s awesome. It’s like, it’s like my own therapy session.

Mazi Robinson: Yes, it’s. And it’s. And again, just to piggyback on that, it’s so helpful to name with someone and to name out loud, because, gosh, when we keep it inside, it sounds as bright as rain. I mean, it sounds so true. The negative things and the doubts and the questions, they sound really real. But verbalizing them, externalizing them, naming them with someone, is so, so valuable in unlocking their power hold over us.

Wendy Valentine: Yes, exactly. I love it. You have an online course, right, called uncomplicating love.

Mazi Robinson: Yes. Uncomplicating love. Yes. you can find it on, my website, maisyrobinson.com. you can also find it on my therapy group practice website, cultivateatlanta.com. but it is a five, part course, looking at, how to uncomplicate love. You know, we are wired for connections, connection. We are relational beings. But sometimes loving others, loving ourselves, feels, really complicated. And so in the course, we talk about what does self love look like? We look, we talk about loving difficult people. We talk about healing from rejection and abandonment. and so it’s a. It’s a great, it’s self paced. So you can download and, and, and go through the course as you have time. there’s a video, and then there’s also a workbook with, journaling questions.

Wendy Valentine: I love the name uncomplicating love, because, gosh, we do complicate something just as pure and wonderful as love. We complicate it. Not intentionally, but we do, right?

Mazi Robinson: Yeah, absolutely. Just old hurts, wounds and fears, can really taint the thing that we’re wired for the most, which is to love and be loved.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. And then you also the cultivate. That’s. Is that done? that. Is that all in Georgia? In Atlanta, yes. Okay. So if you’re in the Atlanta area, definitely go see them. Or even near or just get on a plane.

Mazi Robinson: That’s right. You could come and see us. That would be great.

Wendy Valentine: But yes.

Mazi Robinson: Wendy Summit, a counseling practice. And then we have, gatherings for women. Our next one is actually in September, September 19. And, yeah, the gatherings are free and open to women of all ages and life stages. And we talk about emotional and spiritual health topics. And it’s a great night.

Wendy Valentine: I love it. So awesome. Love all that you’re doing.

Mazi Robinson: Oh, thank you. Thank you. I’ve loved getting to chat. This has been so much fun. It’s been great.

Wendy Valentine: You’ll have to hop over across the ocean and come see me.

Mazi Robinson: I would love that. I would love that.

Wendy Valentine: All right. Thank you so much, Maisie.

Mazi Robinson: Thank you. Have a good one. You, too.