After losing her daughter Katie, Lisa Boehm turned her pain to purpose

Wendy Valentine: Welcome back to the Midlife Makeover show, where we dive deep into the moments that shake us, shape us, and ultimately lead us to rise. Today’s guest knows this journey intimately. Lisa Boehm is a certified grief educator, inspirational speaker, and the author of Journey to Healing A Mother’s Guide to Navigating Child Loss. After tragically losing her daughter Katie in a car accident, Lisa found a way to transform her pain to purpose. Through her angel mom’s community, she now helps other grieving mothers carry their sorrow with grace and rediscover joy on the other side of heartbreak. In today’s heartfelt episode, Lisa will share four powerful strategies that can help you navigate any kind of grief, whether it’s the loss of a loved one, a relationship, a dream, or even your identity. Midlife. Been there, done that. We’ll also explore the important dos and don’ts of supporting someone who is grieving. Because let’s face Lisa, none of us are immune to loss. This conversation is filled with healing, hope, and humanity. Please welcome Lisa to the show.

Lisa Boehm: Hey, Wendy, thank you so much for having me. I am such a big fan of your podcast.

Wendy Valentine: You are so sweet. Thank you so much. I love hearing that. I mean, like, this is such a. Like, the podcast author world can be very crowded, but it can be very lonely. It’s like, it’s, you know, you’re like, I get to talk to my guests, but then other than that, I’m like, is anybody listening? So thank you so much. And I want to tell you, first of all, I, I am so sorry for the loss of Katie. but second of all, I admire the fact that you took such a great loss and turned it into a great gain, not just for yourself, but most importantly, for others. So thank you for that. I admire your strength to be able to do that. So thank you.

Katie was 17 when she died in a car accident last month

but, you know, my first question is, I want to know. Tell me about Katie.

Lisa Boehm: Oh, boy. She was a, spark plug. She was a spark plug. She was, seventeen and a half years old when we lost her in a car accident. And oddly enough, of my two kids at that moment in time, she was 17, my son was 15. We were so hyper focused on parenting our son. He was, you know, doing all the bad things that parents tell their kids not to do. He was doing them tenfold, running with a bad crowd, just making all the bad decisions. And Katie was, you know, over here doing all the right things. She was, you know, had just received an entrance scholarship into two universities, for nursing. She had a top notch boyfriend, you Know, for first boyfriend, like, loved him. He was the son of one of the doctors I work with. what else? She was a. A competitive dancer. So she had all of these healthy lifestyle things. She was vehemently against drugs and alcohol. You know, exercised every day, ate well. So here’s me as a mom thinking, well, if this kid’s, you know, focused on education and her health and has good friends, like, things are good, right? And they were. And, this, as you can imagine, just completely hit us out of out of left field. I didn’t see it coming at all. Nobody ever does. but she was sassy and spicy. And I, will say that she, you know, had a little bit of an addiction issue that was to Sephora makeup. She, could. In fact, her dad took her. Her bank card away from her one time when she, in one shopping spree, spent $500. A girl who worked as a hostess at the local pizza parlor and was not making top coin to support her makeup addiction.

Wendy Valentine: I think I actually, we share that I. I have a makeup addiction. Like, I had in this rv. I only have so much space. I had to get rid of some of my lipsticks. I was like, oh, my God. So can totally. I can totally understand.

Lisa Boehm: Yeah, just, you know, some funny stories about her. She was heard, you know, you and I were talking, previously, before we hit record. We were just down in Phoenix, and that’s, where my folks used to overwinter. And Katie, you know, instead of going on spring break trips with, you know, teenage kids, would choose to go down and spend it with her. Her grandparents in Arizona. And she had one of those loud voices that could be heard miles away, and she would float around the pool in her little donut and say, I can’t wait to retire. She was 17. so hopefully that gives you a little bit of a glimpse into the person.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. Oh, my gosh, she’s amazing. I actually saw the picture of her on your website where she’s in the pool and she’s in that little raft or whatever. Like, oh, what a bright light. I mean, she obviously has made a difference even for the short time that she was here on planet Earth, that she was here right in this lifetime. She made a big difference.

Lisa Boehm: Absolutely. And it’s really a shame that we have to unfortunately lose people to then learn things about them. You know, like, we ended up having to. To use, a massive church for her funeral service because, you know, the entire high school came. And, you know, the stories that some of these kids would Share with us after the fact. You know, I was feeling suicidal and Katie talked me off the ledge, you know, in. In the bathroom at high school.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Lisa Boehm: You know, a young man who, due to different circumstances, you know, was. Had some cognitive challenges and she would sit with him on her lunch break and help him with physics, you know, and some of these things that we never knew about.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Lisa Boehm: you know, just an amazing kid all around.

Was anyone else with her that passed away as well in that accident

Wendy Valentine: This might be like totally, like a silly question, but I’m just curious. Was anyone else with her that passed away as well or that was in that accident?

Lisa Boehm: No, oddly enough, Wendy, I had it in my head that she was leaving the house to go pick someone up to go do this errand. So when the officer came to our house, you know, and that was the, first thing I said.

Wendy Valentine: Yes.

Lisa Boehm: With her. And he said, no one was with her. I said, are you sure? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, oddly enough, in those first few moments. This is, this is going to sound crazy. I had two moments of deep gratitude. One was that there was no one else in the car with her. M. And number two, I feel a wee bit guilty saying this, but I’m grateful that she passed immediately on impact.

Wendy Valentine: She did. Yeah. No, yeah. And you know, I mean, this is. As a mother of three, it’s like, it’s like the worst nightmare that you can think of. Right? And. And yeah, I agree with you. I would be thinking the same thing. Like, oh God, you. You just don’t want them to suffer. Right. At all.

Lisa says she feels Katie with her from the moment she passed away

anything about Katie that you like her strengths? here you are kind of, you know, venturing in this big business and putting yourself out there and do you ever think about Katie and like, if you’re nervous or fearful about doing something and then you. You kind of adopt some of her skills and her strengths.

Lisa Boehm: More than that, I will call her to be with me, like, during. During an interview like this. It’s like, okay, girlfriend, I need you here. I need you here, you know, or I need to channel your, you know, de vivre. Or I need. I need you here. And it’s funny you should ask me that because from the moment she passed away, I have felt her with me. M. you know, this is probably another topic for another day, but she came to me in the most vivid way the night that she passed away. Like, no one on this planet can tell me otherwise. and then there’s just been so many things in the last nine and a half years that again, no one can dispute. And as a, as a Science based health expert. I do know for a fact that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Right. We all know that. We learned that. Pretend science.

Wendy Valentine: Yep.

Lisa Boehm: and I just believe she’s with me, and I believe that my life has now become her legacy. I don’t want anybody to ever look at me and go, oh, Jesus, yes, mom. You know, instead I want them to look at me and maybe what I’m doing with my life, saying, ah, yeah, I see some Katie in there.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, I know. I. I mean, I feel like I know her just because of talking to you. Yeah. So. And I’m sure I cannot even fathom what the pain was like in those beginning. Weeks, days, weeks, months, years. At what point do you recall, if you can, of like, where it started to turn? Where you were kind of like coming out of that darkness and it was starting to like, lift.

Lisa Boehm: I would say, it, it got real bad before it started getting better. and I learned that this is normal and that is suicidal thoughts. You know, the pain is so intense. The missing is off the charts. All you want is to be with them, hold them, talk with them again. You just want one more minute with your child. And I actually did find myself in a place at the time. My husband and I, had quite a collection of wine from traveling and just, we enjoyed it. And I was using sleeping pills because sleep is very evasive after you have experienced a great loss. And my husband’s a pharmacist, and I don’t know if that has anything to do with it, but I remember sitting there trying to calculate how much wine and how many sleeping pills, you know, to get to the other side. And there must, you know, my brain, thankfully, would just stop me always at a certain point, like, I could never figure it out. And I, I think that’s, you know, a, good thing, obviously, but in that moment of darkness and this, this kind of thinking went on for about a month. You know, if I pulled my car out into traffic, if I, you know, how long would it take? And I mean, I’m a wimp and I’m, I just. None of these were gonna pan out. But the, the wine and the, and the pills kind of were something that stuck in my head. And then one day I was just thinking and thinking and thinking and thinking about this, but then my eyes were just drawn to the pictures of my kids. And even though, you know, Katie clearly wasn’t here anymore, I could almost see her through her picture in her eyes, like, just the disappointment and just like, come on, Mom. you know, like, come on, I am not going to be around you if this is the way you’re going to be thinking and being. And then I looked at my son, picture of him, and he, while he was, you know, kind of in a not so great place before Katie died, I would say he as well, went deeper and darker. and I remember thinking, okay, Lisa, if you do this, what chance does your son have, and my husband, frankly, of ever getting their feet back on the ground.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Lisa Boehm: And that was just kind of my holy moment. And it was like, oh, you know, pills in the garbage. And, you know, called my husband at work and said, I think I need some help. And. And so that was probably the biggest pivot. but then there was another one about four or five months later. And we did a lot of traveling after Katie died. Now, not big extravagant, go to Hawaii, anything like that, but we really felt like we needed to learn how to become a family of three. And I know that sounds ridiculous.

Wendy Valentine: No, yeah, I mean, the whole dynamic changes, right?

Lisa Boehm: Everything. Right, right, everything. Like, you go to a restaurant, how many for how many? And you know, sometimes even now, I’ll sometimes say four. Oh, okay. so we really traveled and sometimes it was just weekend getaways because you know what it’s like even if you do a staycation, you know, you’re on your phone or you’re all, let’s paint the fence, or let’s. The kid is off playing video games with his buddies, whatever. So we, we would travel. And one of the places that we traveled to was in the summer after we lost Katie. And if anybody’s familiar, British Columbia, Canada, Vancouver Island. Yeah, we were there the end of July and we went through this hike and it was like, through redwood forest. And we were the only ones on the hike, and it was just gorgeous. And then it split, spit us out onto this phenomenal beach. And to this day, I don’t know why there was nobody on that beach. Like, it was like we were meant to be there. Spit us out on this beach. And, you know, I found all these heart shaped rocks and I wrote Katie’s name in the sand. And my husband and son started walking down the beach a little ways. And I remember tipping my head up to the sun and smiling for the first time. oh, you know, I thought, this is the perfect day. The, the sun feels warm on my skin. I’ve got ocean on my feet. I’ve got forest over there, this gorgeous beach. And then it was like a punch in the gut. It was like, oh my God, what is wrong with me? Like, what is wrong with me? Your daughter is dead.

Wendy Valentine: M. like feeling guilty for being happy.

Lisa Boehm: Guilty for being happy. But then, you know, the little whatever voice over here said, but just a second in that moment, that one minute that you smiled and you were happy. Did you forget Katie? Nope. Did your grief just magically evaporate into thin air?

Grief in one hand, enjoy in the other. Very well said

Hell no. So that’s kind of when I learned that I could carry grief in one hand and joy in the other and try not to feel guilty about it.

Wendy Valentine: Very well said. Grief in one hand, enjoy in the other. Yeah. And I know, like looking back, for me, like when my, my husband died at the age of 26 and I can remember feeling like it was like the opposite. Like I wasn’t allowed to grieve and that if I felt too low, then I was a weak mom or I wasn’t, you know, so I was like trying to put up this front, like, I’m fine, I’m fine. I’ve got shit to do. And life goes on. And unfortunately that of me not grieving for Jason, that caught up with me 20 years later when my brother died.

Lisa Boehm: Oh dear.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. And so it was like a double whammy.

So I’m curious, are there other losses that kind of came to surface during Katie grieving

So I’m curious, are there, were there any other losses that kind of came to the surface for you at the same time as grieving for, for Katie?

Lisa Boehm: I would say not personally.

Wendy Valentine: Okay.

Lisa Boehm: but I would say that around the time that Katie died. My sister in law lost three family members within four months. Like Katie was kind of in there. It was awful. Her brother was 51. And then unfortunately her sister died of suicide and her, her elderly father, he, I, I truly believe he died from heartache and heartbreak after that. so attending those funerals after Katie’s to support her as best we could, just Oh man. You know, grief definitely has a compounding effect. And even now, I mean, we had to put down our 18 and a half year old dog who outlived Katie, who, Which is so strange, but we had we had to put him down, you know, as an act of compassion. That was awful.

Wendy Valentine: Awful.

Lisa Boehm: You know, kind of rips the scab off of any healing that has, has occurred.

At midlife especially, we experience a lot of losses and. So you can’t really prepare for tragic death

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, the, the four steps that you’ve talked about with the grieving. let’s, let’s, let’s go over those. I’m curious to see. And, and, and, and it does apply to any type of loss, right? Loss of a friend, a family member. Ah, loss of a job, a Loss of identity, loss of all sorts of things. I mean, that’s one thing. At midlife especially, we experience a lot of losses and. And a lot of losses to come. Right. I feel like, just like. So you can’t really prepare, you know, for especially a tragic death, but you can at least get yourself into a place. I feel that. Okay. When loss does come my way, then I feel a little bit more equipped and. And to know it’s okay. Like, it’s okay to grieve. It’s okay to be. I think for me, like, when my brother died, it was. I gave myself the gift of grieving. I told myself, I was like, you’re grieving this time, girl. Like, it was like, I’m, giving you this gift. It sounds so ironic, but it was. And it was a gift to myself to just. To just be. To just allow and, to accept. And. And I even got to the point, just like you did too, with, like, the. The thoughts of suicide, like, you just want to escape your mind. You wanted to escape the pain and escape. And. And I was. Same thing. Like, not that I was really going to do anything, but it was just like, h. It would sure be nice to just float away. Just like, you know, like, oh, just like, give me a break from all of this. So, yes, let’s.

Let’s talk about those four steps, uh, that can help with grief

Let’s talk about those four steps, that I think will be so helpful for people no matter what they’re going through.

Lisa Boehm: Absolutely. And let’s call them pillars instead. I like that, you know, with grief, there is no one road map. And what works for you? What works for me? Like, we’re all unique snowflakes, but let’s call them pillars. And I’m in a. I love things that spell into words. So I’m going to use the word hope, right? Because I think it’s easier to remember.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Lisa Boehm: And I think one of those pillars is health and well being. Self care. Self care. Self care. Like, when you think of the amount of tears that you cry, that’s water. I mean, I think we’re becoming better at, you know, this whole notion of hydrating ourselves. You know, that pile of snotty Kleenexes is water. You’ve got to hydrate yourself. You’ve got to fuel your body. I always felt better when I could get outside, even if I just stood on my back step with a cup of coffee, took a couple of breaths of fresh air. My husband dragged me around the block. You know, in the beginning. we’re going to walk. No, we’re not. Yes, we are. Here we go. Always felt better. Make sure you’re sleeping. If you’re not sleeping at least six hours a night, go talk to your family doctor. You know, I think that’s a conversation, obviously for anyone and their doctor, but many people that I work with have to take some kind of antidepressant or sleep aid, at least for a short while.

Wendy Valentine: Yes.

Lisa Boehm: There is no gold star for quote unquote, getting through this without something. And I’m not pushing the drugs. I’m just saying be open to what you need. So that’s number one, health and well being. You got to take care of yourself in the most basic sense. Number two, be open minded. I truly believe that our mindset and our beliefs affect everything we do. If we tell ourselves, I’m never going to feel better. This is a life sentence of pure hell. And that does. That is the way it feels in the beginning. Well, guess what? You’re not giving yourself permission to heal, to move forward, or to possibly find joy again. You have slammed the door shut. So that’s number two, open minded. Number three, people, the right people. Now, as you mentioned, grief can be loss of relationship, like divorce. It can be loss of job, loss of finances, loss of health. There’s a gazillion reasons why someone might be grieving. But you’re going to find, unfortunately, that there’s some people who don’t get it.

Wendy Valentine: Yes. Yeah.

Lisa Boehm: And sometimes that means having to find new people. I cannot say enough positive words about support groups, whether they’re online, whether they’re in person, therapists. I think everybody needs a therapist whether they’re going through grief or not. But find the people who validate your grief, who are going to help your grief, and maybe who are grieving the same thing as you in a way that resonates with you. And what I mean by that is, in this world of grieving mothers, as an example, I have dipped my toe in every possible group, and some of them are way too dark for me. I. I am somebody who needs hope. I want to feel encouraged. I want to look at someone and say, oh my gosh, she is walking this road too. But I, I think I want to do my grief more like her. So you got to find the people that you feel suited to. Okay? And sometimes that means you getting off your butt and you going to find those people. Because if you just wait there quietly in your house, it ain’t gonna happen.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Lisa Boehm: And the, the fourth pillar is E, which is explore. what works for me, may not work for you, be open again to different things. The first support group I went to, I met so many amazing women. I learned about grief yoga. I didn’t know about that before. I learned about journaling and the power of, of getting your thoughts onto paper. I learned so many things, so that’s one piece of it. But then when you get to that point where you’re like, what is joy again? I don’t remember. M. You know, to explore the things that just light you up. What did you love to do even when you were a kid? For me, it was creativity. You know, I blew off the dust on my sewing machine and I’ve been upcycling denim. I love it. I tried pottery. what things would you like to try? You know that you’ve always thought about ballroom dancing, but those are basically the four. So hope it’s health and well being. It’s open mindedness, people and exploring.

Wendy Valentine: I love that. And I love that it’s actually not steps that they are pillars. It’s not something you have to, It’s those four like guide guide posts, you know, like those things that you like. Okay. It’s not that it has to be done in order or anything like that. It’s just four main things to keep in mind. And I love what you said too about the people that you surround yourself with during that time. And it’s not that it’s they’re bad or it’s their fault or that they don’t get it, it’s okay.

Sometimes you just need a sounding board. You don’t want the solutions or anything

But you’ll. I think once you kind of put it out there, you’ll attract the people that you’ll need. And like you said too, sometimes you have to go out there and get them. Whether that be in support groups or therapy or. Or thing. But I mean, I had certain people even in my life too. Like all the. No matter what the loss was in my life, some people just weren’t ones that I could reach out to. It didn’t make it. It was nothing bad. It was just. I had my go tos mostly in Annie, but. And sometimes you just need a sounding board. You don’t want the, you know, sometimes you don’t need the solutions or anything. You just want someone to sit and listen to you gripe and moan and carry on, all of that.

It’s challenging sometimes to know what to say to someone grieving

So speaking of like, it is it. It’s challenging sometimes to know what to say to someone while they’re grieving. So any advice on that?

Lisa Boehm: You know, again, I wish there was a handbook. I wish there was just something that you could pick Up. And you know, take, take a phrase out of that. But I think first and foremost, the cliches have got to go. But, helpful things are. I am so sorry. I am so sorry that this happened.

Lisa Boehm: Validation. This sucks. This is so unfair. I’m, so sorry you’re going through this, you know, and if you don’t know what. And was just like not, not sure at all what to say. And she just said, lisa, I’m afraid to say anything. I don’t want to hurt you. I’m afraid to say the wrong thing. And her daughter and Katie had gone to school from kindergarten all the way through grade 12. And she said, I’m never going to talk about Shay in front of you. M. And I said, aaron, I said, I want, I want to know about Shay. But she was just so vulnerable and so honest with me that she was scared and didn’t want to hurt me. And I thought that is a great thing to say. Honestly, there are no words. I, I, I don’t know what to say. I love you. And I’m, I’m so sorry. And hugs. Hugs are always welcome.

Wendy Valentine: Yes, I know. I knew I should have worn a, waterproof mascara today from Sephora. Of course. I was like, I know I’m gonna get teared up even, even just preparing for today’s interview. And I was like, I always just kind of like think about what, you know, I think about my guest and their story and, and I was like getting teared up just like, oh, my, drying my hair today. I was like, oh my God. But, and that’s okay, right? Like, it’s okay to cry. It’s okay to, to be sad and sad for someone else’s sadness. It’s, it’s all okay. I mean, it’s all part of being human. I mean, it would, you know, it’s, it’s, that’s, I mean, it’s not like all of life is rainbows and sprinkles. It, it’s just not. We have those dark storms that come into our lives and, and you do the best that you can.

M. M. writes about her journey through grief in Losing Katie

And I’m sure, I mean, were there some things about yourself that surprised you during that time, whether positive or negative, that were like, oh, like things that you discovered about yourself that you had no idea.

Lisa Boehm: Interestingly enough, even the night that the police came to our home. So after the police left, my parents came. I eventually sent them home because it was getting late. Katie’s boyfriend and his family, of course, I worked with his dad. They showed up at, like midnight. and I found myself, and I still find myself to be the consoler. Here I was the brand new grieving mother. I was consoling my mother. I was consoling my. Sorry, Katie’s boyfriend’s mom. I was consoling. I was the consoler.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Lisa Boehm: M. Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: And here. And here you are. Now you’re consoling the whole world, which is awesome.

Lisa Boehm: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: Taking it to a grand level. When did. When did it pop into your mind? You’re like, you know what? I’m gonna write a book about this. I’m gonna. I’m gonna start teaching this. When did that. When did that happen?

Lisa Boehm: I don’t know that I had a grand idea of all the things. But let’s talk about the book because that happened first about. Oh, gosh, it was pretty early on, I’m going to say about two, three months in. I had this recurring thought, like, m. I’m very visual person. So I had sat through up to that point, I don’t know how many dance, rehearsals and dance recitals and competitions. So sometimes when I heard music, I would choreograph stuff in my head. I don’t know, weird. But I. I would see this choreographed dance in my head of a very small group of lyrical dancers. So modern dance. And they were walking towards each other with these horrible heavy suitcases. And I kept having this, like, what. What is this? And for whatever reason, I pulled out my laptop and. And within minutes, minutes, I had this powerful short story. And this short story was about a man who came to my door and delivered this horrible, ugly, beat up, disgusting, old, heavy suitcase. And I didn’t know what to do with this thing. And I. I mean, it was kind of stuck to me like glue. I had to carry it everywhere. I just sleep with it. I had to, you know, lug it down the street, all the things. And I was curious about it, but it scared me because it was so ugly, you know? And one day I unzipped the corner, but I didn’t unzip it enough. So when I looked inside, it was just as ugly and gross and M. One day I got brave and I unzipped that sucker and I flipped it open. And inside was nothing but love and beauty and meaning. a metaphor for grief. And I had, magazines, I had, authors, I had all kinds of people who wanted to pay money for it, to publish it, to do all these things with it. And I said, no, no, I think this thing has got bigger purpose. But I don’t know what it is yet. And then shortly after that, I said to my husband, I think I want to write a book. To which he said, about what? And I said, well, our journey, Losing Katie. And he said, who’s gonna want to read a book about that? And I said, I don’t know, but if I can help one person, I think this is something I need to do. And that short story became roughly the outline of the journey. Like, suitcase journey, the journey through grief. And, it was very cathartic, very healing to write it. I. I was never a writer. Like, if you would have told me five years before that you’re going to write a book, I would have said, no, I’m not. I’m going to scale Mount Everest first, because it wasn’t even on the radar. Right. But I wrote it. And it took me about a year, you know, with all the edits and all that kind of stuff. And then I thought, okay, yeah, okay, I did the book. But, like, okay, we can all read a book. Books are great. They’re great jumping off point. You can put lots of content, lots of helpful stuff in there. But grief is lifelong. So, you know, so then that morphed into the grief groups that I run. And then just, this past December, on Katie’s angel anniversary, I started my own podcast. So, you know, it’s just been kind of wherever the universe, Katie, whoever it is, you know, is kind of guiding me along. And where I see a need is, is the direction I go.

Wendy Valentine: There’s definitely lots of gifts and grief. And I think grieving really opens up creativity, too. Opens those parts of you that you never knew even existed.

Lisa Boehm: If you’re open to it.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. I’m so glad you were open to it.

Lisa Boehm: You know, it.

M. M. says we have a choice after losing a limb

I really think that we have a choice.

Wendy Valentine: Yep.

Lisa Boehm: I cannot think of anything else that compares to losing a child. The only thing I can think of is maybe if, I was in an accident and lost my right leg and I would have to learn to walk again, I might need to find a new job again. My relationship would likely change. There would be a lot of anger, a lot of heavy feelings, and I could stay in bed. I could maybe become an alcoholic. I could become a really miserable human being. And probably most people would say, oh, well, this is what happens, right?

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. Yep.

Lisa Boehm: Or I could make a choice and say, okay, I got one leg. This sucks. But what am I going to do about it? I’m going to find a physiotherapist. I’m going to explore maybe, an artificial Leg. I’m going to start exercising again because I remember that, that helped me feel good before. I’m going to talk with other people who’ve lost their right leg. I’m going to. And anyway, I think we have a choice, right. We can give up or we can rebuild and figure it out and move forward.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, you’re so right. I mean, it is very cliche. Like life is short and. Yes. Right. Like we look at Katie, we look at Jason, they died so young. M. They’d never even made it to midlife. Right. They never even had the, the glory to be able to make it to midlife. So if we’re here and we’re listening, we’re breathing, we are alive, you have a choice to be able to do something. And I think that’s, that’s such a great gift. And yeah, I mean, you’re right. Like you could, it’s.

Staying in grief and the misery is hard. Figuring it out is hard

What is the, Robert Frost. You know, the two roads diverged in a wood. And which one are you going to take? Are you going to take the one of grief, like, of staying there and, you know, not doing anything about it, or are you going to take a turn and go, okay, I’m going to make the best of this and, and, and really live out the rest of my life in a, in a fulfilling way.

Lisa Boehm: Right. And, and just a different spin on that. But something, that we’ve all heard as well is we get to choose our hard. Staying in grief and the misery is hard.

Wendy Valentine: It is, it’s awful.

Lisa Boehm: Figuring it out, figuring out the path forward, figuring out those things that might actually be helpful is hard.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Lisa Boehm: You get to pick your herd.

Wendy Valentine: And it’s a roller coaster. Right. I mean, you’ll have those good days, your bad days. Good, bad moments. Bad moments. Like it, you’re like all over the place. And even just knowing that it’s, it’s okay. It was like I was all over the place literally within a 24 hour period. I was like, you know, and you had to just kind of like just stay on the roller coaster. Right? Like, okay, where’s this going? Where’s this going?

Lisa Boehm: Yeah.

Wendy Valentine: And, and learning from all of that, the highs and the lows, definitely.

Lisa Boehm: And, and I don’t know what your experience is. I’d like to hear your experience. I have said that, you know, the roller coaster at the beginning of my journey was like these Six flags. I’m feeling nauseous, I’m gonna throw up. make this thing stop. Like, you know, hair blowing back, you know, whiplash, horrible now, my grief, I would say most days, is like a kitty roller coaster. There’s still the ups and downs and the dipsy doodles. They’re not nearly as intense. And I have the confidence, knowing that I have gone through that Six Freaking Flags roller coaster. I know that I’m going to be okay. Right?

Wendy Valentine: Yeah.

Lisa Boehm: Even if my roller coaster goes off the rails, I’m gonna be okay.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, exactly. Really. I mean, I had, a few guests on the show not too long ago, just in the last month or two were, like, there was one.

Lisa Boehm: She.

Wendy Valentine: She had gotten polio at the age of three, and she was in a. You know, she’s been in a wheelchair, and she took that. That loss of. The loss of her legs, and she made the best of it, like, where she could have been, like, oh, woe was me. you know. No, like, make the best of it. Like, this is. You get this one. One life. Yeah.

Lisa Boehm: Well, it’s funny you should say that. I don’t know what everybody’s beliefs are, but, you know, in some ways, I’ve. I’ve thought grief makes you think all the things, you know, that our souls are here living this human existence for the purpose of soul growth. And I remember thinking a couple times, man, oh, man, I am not coming back to learn the child loss lesson again.

Wendy Valentine: So, yeah, I thought that, too. Like, you might as well conquer this thing, because I am not doing this ever again.

Lisa Boehm: Yeah. I don’t want to do this again.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah, exactly. I know. And I love what you said, too, about, What is it about? Energy cannot be destroyed. Right. And I’ve thought the same thing. Like, it’s. Yeah. I mean, even when we go. Right. It’s like we just morph back into the. The soup of energy that we’re all swimming in.

Lisa Boehm: Yeah. Yeah. I always say, you know, this thing here, this. This is my rental, my body. Right. It. I, just got it for a short time. Right. None of us physically lives forever, but when I think about who makes Lisa up, I don’t think about this shoulder or that hip or that big toe. I think about this thing inside of me. Right. this essence inside of me that you can’t see. Nobody can see yet. So you think, well, when the outer shell quits working or whatever happens, you know, that. That inner peace. I don’t know. I think that there’s much more to this life. Existence than we’re not supposed to do.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. And I. I think actually death teaches you a lot about that. Or it did for me.

Lisa, thank you for opening up about grief on your podcast

And actually, my Brother, he’s, like, in a. In a little jar in the back of the RV right now. You know, I’ve been carrying him around. You know, eventually I’ll take him the, to the Camino de Santiago in. In Portugal, and I. That’s My plan is to sprinkle him there, but I’ve. You know, I’ve been carrying him around, and then I. Sometimes I’ll look at him like, this is my brother. You know, I’m like, this is not him. Right. Like, but it. You’re so right. It’s like there’s this vehicle that carries our soul through this lifetime, but it’s really not you. And that’s why sometimes, you know, I mean, it’s all. It’s good to look good and feel good about yourself, but, like, you’re so much more than the damn wrinkles on your face or so who cares if your ass is sagging a little bit? Like, you, like, let’s get off of all of that and really focus on the soul that is so freaking powerful that can make huge changes in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Well, someday I’ll, I’ll have to document going on the Camino de Santiago with my brother. With my brother on my back. I know he’s. He’s in the drawer. And they. Actually, the other day, I couldn’t find him. I was like, where did I put my brother? My God, I’ve lost him. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much, Lisa. This is so hopeful. Hope. H O P E I love. I love that. I love the pillars, and I love what you’re doing and you’re. And I know Katie is so proud of you.

Lisa Boehm: Oh, I appreciate that so much, and thank you. You know, as we were saying before, like, this is not a sexy topic. This is not a popular topic, and, you know, so thanks for being brave to. To have the hard conversation and just to be open and real about it. That’s a gift that you’re giving many people.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. Thank you. I’d rather talk about this than menopause. So, like, that, to me, that’s much easier than hormones.

Lisa Boehm: That is a complicated thing. I am there.

Wendy Valentine: So where can we find you and also listen to your podcast, too?

Lisa Boehm: Absolutely. best place to go to find me is just my website. All the links are there. So that’s WWW, Grief, support for moms, all sped out dot com. And my, podcast is going to be going through a little bit of a makeover, but right now you can call it, or you can find it rather at the Angel Moms podcast.

Wendy Valentine: Love it. So proud of you.

Lisa Boehm: Thank you.

Wendy Valentine: Yeah. Thank you, everyone. Have a great day.